************ Topic 14 Mon Feb 16, 1987 ALBERTMCCANN at 11:35 EST Sub: Color bleeding on a 128 Has anybody noticed the color bleeding on a 128? 64 mode does it too. 12 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 14 Message 1 Mon Feb 16, 1987 ALBERTMCCANN at 11:42 EST I have a friend who pointed out to me that 64 mode (and 128 mode) video is not as good as a 'real' 64. Using various monitors and 64s and 128s, the video is not as good on a 128 as a 64. the color bleeds to the right at the color change, where you change from one color to another. This is in ALL 128s we've seen. Yet when we hook a 64 up to the same monitor, it has a much clearer screen. Sprites seem to bleed also. Does anyone know why the VIC chip is worse on a 128 than a 64? Did Commodore mess it up when they added the I/O port? ------------ Category 14, Topic 14 Message 2 Mon Feb 16, 1987 DEB [*SysOp*] at 15:54 EST Actually, there was some changes to the VIC II chip specs, and some 128's are worse than others, some better. Also, the original 1902 gave a MUCH better 40 column picture and colors than the same computer hooked up to a 1902A or a Magnavox. I will look and see what I can find about this 40 col. stuff, I recall a discussion on the Delphi *FlagShip* about this over a year ago. *deb!* ------------ Category 14, Topic 14 Message 3 Mon Feb 16, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 16:23 EST I've owned a number of C-64's in my days, and can tell you they all displayed quite differently, sometimes dramatically. I havent noticed any bleeding of color on the 128, and recently we compared the 1902 with the 1902A and found the A to display a crisper image in all modes. Guess it depends on your luck. ------------ Category 14, Topic 14 Message 4 Mon Feb 16, 1987 GBARRETT [VISION100] at 23:57 CST Deb's right...they kind of fudged in the VIC II design and initially the 128's released had a pretty lousy 40 column display. Supposedly that was fixed in post-December runs... -Gary(that's why I stay in 80 columns)B ----------- Category 14, Topic 14 Message 11 Tue Jan 05, 1988 CARL.H [CHUCK.WAGON] at 03:47 EST I have a 1902 and C-128, The color bleeds in C64 Mode when the monitor is set to Composite Mode as opposed to the SEP mode. Try switching to SEP and see if this improves your situation... regards, Carl... ------------ Category 14, Topic 14 Message 12 Fri Jan 08, 1988 ALBERTMCCANN at 21:49 EST From I've found hacking around the machine, the problem is chip and RF modulator problems. Rather than the circuitry that the 64 uses for 40 column video, the circuits were moved to the RF mod. A quick experiment with somthing like the 64s way of doing it showed an improvment. The video on the 80 column chip has some minor video flaw in the chip also I think. Seems to me that I saw a message to the effect that the person who designed the 80 column chip moved on to greener pastures and no one was able (or wanted to) make changes in the chip. ------------ ************ Topic 22 Sun Oct 04, 1987 T-PARKER (Forwarded) Sub: Screen dump on the 128 I wanted to find out if there is any way to get a screen dump directly from the screen on the c128. This is to avoid putting something in a file first and then printing it. 11 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 1 Mon Oct 05, 1987 KEVIN.S [-Sysop-] (Forwarded) , croll, uit ?s There are various utility programs available to do just that. Some are PD, and some are commercial. The problem, as with much Commodore "stay-resident" software, is with memory conflicts. If you are using a "normal" BASIC program, there are several PD utilities which should work fine for dumping text to the printer. If you are using a commercial program, such as a word processor, you might have to try an add-on cartidge product, such as Partner-128 or Partner- 64. I also believe that the Final Cartridge for the 64 offers screen-dumps, though I may be wrong on this. Cardco also offered a cartridge allowing one to do hi-res screen dumps using their Freeze-Frame technology shortly before they went belly-up, those may still be around. KeS ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 2 Tue Oct 06, 1987 B.HAYFORD (Forwarded) I too am looking for a good screen dump (for the 128 mainly) program. Anyone using any of the products listed by Kes with any success??? I have had no luck at all with the I would like to be able to dump some of the screens from some of the excellent amortization programs (for instance) for the 128 but tried using screen dump 128 (in the 128 software libraries) but it didn't work. I am not adverse to buying a cartridge to be able to do this. I think my setup should handle it - a 128;1571;1581 and a Commodore MPS 1200. Any replies would be appreciated. Bert Hayford ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 3 Tue Oct 06, 1987 KEVIN.S [-Sysop-] (Forwarded) The screen dump on Partner does work just fine, for all text applications (or low-res graphics). The nice thing about Partner is that it really DOES work with almost all 80-column programs... not too many are fully incompatible with it. I also like its other features enough to keep it online all the time. The other cartridges are for 64 mode only, Partner will only work in 80column C128 mode. KeS ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 4 Wed Oct 07, 1987 C.BARBEE [FUSBINWA] (Forwarded) I too use the Partner-128 (Along with the entire TimeWorks series.) and it has excellent screen-dump capabilities. The only problem I have is that I can't get it to work with BobsTerm-128. Any ideas? -=> Cliff <=- ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 5 Thu Oct 08, 1987 KEVIN.S [-Sysop-] (Forwarded) What doesn't work, Cliff? Mine works fine with BTP, it is just that the characters look odd, because BTP redefines both character sets for it's own use. It shouldn't affect the screen dumps, though, and the screen looks more legible if you shift character sets while in Partner (C=G, I believe.) Also, there is a character set in the libraries for BTP which allows normal use of Partner, but you give up the special indications for control characters while using BTP's buffer editor. KeS ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 6 Thu Oct 08, 1987 C.BARBEE [FUSBINWA] (Forwarded) Well Kevin, I take the dongle out, plug the Partner cable back in, hit the button, and I get the Partner menu -- sort of. It shows as a block of vertical lines and the actual window is unreadable -- everything is cover- ed by the lines. ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 7 Thu Oct 08, 1987 KEVIN.S [-Sysop-] (Forwarded) Ok, well, first, I usually deal with the dongle problem by using port 1 for Partner, and invoking it with [Control] and the button. Then, at the main screen, hit C= G to switch character sets. The second set should be much more legible. Again, the problem is not so much that Partner is not working correctly, as that BTP has mapped the character sets into something very odd indeed. You can verify this by typing blind... all the functions will still work. Try the alternate character set, I find it really helps me. KeS ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 8 Thu Oct 08, 1987 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] (Forwarded) Also the Mach-128 cart does screen dumps in 64 or 128 mode...either 40 or 80 columns. Courtney ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 9 Thu Oct 08, 1987 MIKEM [- Mike -] (Forwarded) There is also a special character set in the library for use with BT-Pro and Partner. Really makes a nice team. ------------ Category 14, Topic 22 Message 10 Sat Oct 10, 1987 C.BARBEE [FUSBINWA] (Forwarded) Thanx Mike and Kevin, I'll get the char. set and I've already tried the alternate that Kevin suggested. It's better, but still not perfect. ------------ ************ Topic 31 Thu Oct 16, 1986 FRANKDECLUE at 00:30 EDT Sub: 8563 with 64k video ram. This is for all you that have or plan to modify your C-128 by replacing the 16K 80 Col video ram with 64K video ram. and what is required to make the change. 25 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 1 Thu Oct 16, 1986 FRANKDECLUE at 00:38 EDT , croll, uit ?s I have just replaced the 4416 16k dram chips with 4464 64k dram chips with sockets for less than 10 dollars. To increase your C-128 video ram up to 64k you will need two 4464 DRAM memory chips and I recommend highly two 18 pin dual inline sockets to mount the new memory chips in place. If you do not have considerable desoldering/soldering experience have some one that has the experience replace the chips for you. This modification does not effect the C- 128 in any way that I have noticed until I program the 8563 video controller chip it self and tell it that it has 64k of ram plus some other things have to be set to use the 50 line mode or the 640 x 400 hires mode. Frank ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 2 Thu Oct 16, 1986 MICHAEL.M at 01:23 EDT NOTE that in doing this you will probably void your warranty! Frank - Do you have any programs that use the extended K of the new DRAMS? What exactly are you doing with all this spare room? -Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 3 Fri Oct 17, 1986 DEB [*deb!*] at 13:51 EDT Frank, Mike: Doesn't Ultra HiRes support all that extra room?! ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 4 Fri Oct 17, 1986 MICHAEL.M at 19:16 EDT Good question, deb! Besides asking Mr. Wallace about the Amiga-->C-128 convertors, this might be another query for the guy. (Gads - We may as well have him here for a COnference, huh!?) -=:Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 5 Fri Oct 17, 1986 FRANKDECLUE at 19:55 EDT DEB, Mike: as far as I know Ultra Hires does not support the extra ram and there is no software support that I know of att. I have gotten 80 column by 50 line text display and have had with ultra hires 2 displays of the demo program one above the other, however this is the first that I have tried a machine llanguage and there are a lot of 8563 registers that have to be set to utilize the extra ram. however it does work. the 80 by 50 line display is easily readable using a RGBI monitor. Frank.. ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 6 Fri Oct 17, 1986 DEB [*deb!*] at 23:10 EDT ....hehehe, I'll be willing to bet that there *will* be products which support that extra ram in the VDC announced before January .... :::smile::: ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 7 Sat Oct 18, 1986 MICHAEL.M at 01:53 EDT Uh - What *is* she trying to tell us?? (Another case of the now-famous Indirect- Addressing) [grin] -=:Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 8 Sat Oct 18, 1986 DEB [*deb!*] at 13:05 EDT No, Mike, that was _not_ indirect addressing...thats a blantant 'guess' which was arrived at with information which I can't say a word about.... However, isn't it nice to know that if YOU told me a secret, it would be safe with me....? :::smile::: ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 9 Sat Oct 18, 1986 SPARROW.J at 15:48 EDT Rumor has it that Louis Wallace is working with the Fred Bowen on another enhancement wedge similar to Ultra-Hires that does support 64k VDC RAM...instructions on how to do the modification are in the October issue of Twin Cities 128, complete with pics...the text of this article will be place in the TC-128/128th Parallel software library this weekend. I do strongly suggest that one only attempt this project if you HAVE EXPERIENCE with soldering and electronics projects...you can really screw up your computer if you don't know what you are doing. --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 13 Mon Oct 27, 1986 J.KRESS at 20:26 CST I talked to Fred Bowen at Commodore about the 'WEDGE'. The hold-up at this point is those merciless marketing geniuses. TC-128 has their name in for a BETA test copy and I can't wait to see this one, as I have done the 64K expansion ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 14 Sat Mar 07, 1987 T.MENEGATOS [Tom] at 01:41 EST I just opened my 128 looking to see how difficult it might be to upgrade the RAM's, and it seems Commodore beat me to it. Next to the 8563 were 2 4264- 15's. (Yes, 4264, not 4464) I'll assume I already have the 64K VDC then, but when I tried to use GRAPHIX 80, after typing the sys2816,x, I just got a "?BEND NOT FOUND ERROR" I did BLOAD a doodle picture first, I did strip the Xmodem padding, but still it doesn't work. Would it have anything to do with the fact that I have 4264 chips, while everyone who did their own has 4464's? Please, help if you can, I want to see SOMETHING that confirms I have 64K available! Thanks... ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 15 Sun Jun 14, 1987 JDCLARK at 22:47 EDT So, does anyone know where to get these babies? Radio Shack has something they call "4164 64k dynamic rams", but I get the distinct feeling these wouldn't work (just a bug in my ear...). I'd like to install: the new 128 ROMs, the 64k VDC RAM chips, and the Basic 8.0 PROM all at once (some upgrade, eh!). JDCLARK ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 16 Sun Jun 14, 1987 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] at 20:22 PDT Whew...major surgery. Good luck! ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 17 Mon Jun 15, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 00:02 EDT JD - No, the 4164 Dynamic Ram (DRAM) chips will not work. They are of the sixteen pin variety. What you need are the eighteen pin chips called 4464. They are a bit hard to find, even here in the Bay Area (so close to the Silicon Valley). You shouldnt have a problem ordering them via mail-order, ads for which can be found in the Computer Shopper magazine (among others). Kevin picked up a bunch of them for us, and he might tell us where, but here are a few other places that mail-order them: JDR MicroDevices 110 Knowles Drive Los Gatos, CA 95030 ($6.95 each) (800) 538-5000 MicroProcessors Unlimited 24000 S.Peoria Ave. Beggs, OK 74421 (918) 267-4961 ($3.50 each) MicroTech P.O. Box 27083 Seattle, WA 98125 (206) 364-2209 ($3.95 each) You might also consider spending the few additional dollars for 18 pin sockets if you are doing the VDC upgrade. The C-128 ROMs and the 1571 ROM are already socketed. Good luck! - Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 18 Mon Jun 15, 1987 KEVIN.S at 01:36 EDT I bought a batch of the 4464's from I.C. Express 15358 Valley Boulevard City of Industry, CA 91746 (800) 892-8889, CA call (800) 892-8181 $3.25 for 150ns, $3.45 for 120ns Another vendor I saw was: B.G. Micro P.O. Box 280298 Dallas, TX 75228 (214) 271-5546 $3.25 for 120ns Jameco Enterprises also offers these chips, as well as many Commodore- specific ones. They want $4.95 per 150ns chip. Jameco Electronics 1355 Shoreway Rd. Belmont, CA 94002 (415) 592-8097 I might suggest, if you are changing all those parts at once, that you change one set, then plug the motherboard back in and verify that everything works OK before proceeding with the next step. That way, you can at least isolate the problem if anything goes wrong. KeS ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 20 Fri Jul 10, 1987 JDCLARK at 23:42 EDT One question....does anyone know whether there is any functional difference between the 120 and 150ns versions of this chip? In other words, do they both work? If anyone knows for sure, please let me know ASAP via EMail. JDCLARK ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 21 Sat Jul 11, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 03:03 EDT JDClark - Both the 120ns and 150ns chips do work. The same holds true for the 17xx RAM chip upgrading. ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 24 Sun Jan 01, 1989 THX1138 at 18:46 EST Howdy all, I am mostly a medium-mini computer person but the 'ol C128 has become pretty interesting to me in the past couple of days reading all the infor- mation that you folks are putting out. By the way Integrated Circuit terminalogy somtimes (sometimes) tries to make sense by being self explainitory. The 4416 is a 4 by 16 kbit device and the 4164 is a 1 by 64 kbit device etc... of course depending on the number of bits this gives you different amounts of bytes availible, assuming 8 bit data you would then need two of either device for 16 kbytes. Hope this tidbit helps someone out. By the way, the price for 256k devices has skyrocketed as of this date due to the demand and the yen/ dollar difference. You will have to call the retailer before ordering for the daily availibility/price quote. John Trolinger ------------ Category 14, Topic 31 Message 25 Tue Jan 03, 1989 HORO [-sysop-] at 19:10 EST John, look into the C128 a little more! We tend to keep it a fairly well guarded secret, but there are quite a few interesting features and quirks of the machine ... new things are still being discovered (Sparrow J. was demonstrating some amazing interlaced video at the recent World of Commodore Show in Philadelphia .... direct quote: "We are so far past 'can't be done that you won't believe ....'). C128 owners truly know the meaning of a Love/Hate relationship! ------------ ************ Topic 37 Tue Dec 09, 1986 R-TITO (Forwarded) Sub: VIDEO DISPLAY PROBLEM COMMODORE 128 VIDEO PROBLEMS 18 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 1 Tue Dec 09, 1986 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 01:33 EST , croll, uit ?s R-Tito - Care to elaborate on the Video Problems?? Maybe we can help. ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 2 Tue Jul 28, 1987 JDCLARK at 00:27 EDT I just took delivery on a new 128D. There seems to be flickering of some of the pixels on certain characters--don't remember this problem with the 128. Anyone know the solution? JDCLARK ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 3 Tue Jul 28, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 01:55 EDT Does this happen in all modes, JD? (I.E.: 128/40 col., 128/80 col., and 64 mode) I remember the old, old 64's used to have some interesting 'effects' similar to that. This would be a good question to ask Fred Bowen this Tuesday night in the Conference. ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 4 Wed Jul 29, 1987 JDCLARK at 22:50 EDT This effect only seems to occur in 80 columns--and only on certain characters. Worse on reverse chars, but also the left-most pixel in small 't's. Also very noticable using BASIC 8--> very disturbing. Almost like the screen were alive and moving (re Raiders...). My older 128 did not suffer from this problem, which makes it somewhat annoying that the 128D, which is supposed to be "state of the 8-bit art" has this effect. My somewhat uninformed guess is that it must be coming from the 8563 chip, since I don't see it in 40 cols. (although don't use 40 very often...). Also since only several specific characters seem to be affected, possibly character ROM? Wasn't there a BB topic on this problem a while ago? I seem to recall such a thing, but then the mind must be going. Otherwise, the 128D is *very* fine--the built in 1571 is ever so quiet! If you here of anything concerning this problem, let me know! JDCLARK ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 5 Thu Jul 30, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 04:50 EDT JD - Hmm...dont remember a previous thread concerning this. Best (and quickest) way of getting to the root of the problem (which is apparently the 8563) is to take the unit down to your local C= Service Center and have them substitute chips. I'm anxious to know two things from you. First, did this problem occur after a day or so of use, or was it always present right from the first day? Also, quite a number of people seem a bit leery of the 128-D simply because the drive is built-in and it looks like there is very little ventilation.... could you give us a CPU-box temperature report (cold, warm, hot)? (hehe) Thanx. Chances seem pretty good that your problem is is simply bad 8563 or bad connectors therein. Keep us posted, and I'll be hounding other 128-D owners for their views/comments. - Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 6 Fri Jul 31, 1987 JDCLARK at 01:04 EDT Mike, Problem occurs right away after startup--not hot. The CPU box is fairly warm, but then I have a monitor on top of it. Interestingly, the area around the disk drive is the coolest area--certainly as cool as if not cooler than the separate 1571. My guess is the problem is with the 8563 also. Otherwise, I think the 128D is quite fine. There is *less* noise from the drive, probably because its more secure. Haven't noticed any temperature problems, despite the heat wave here in Baltimore. ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 8 Sun Aug 02, 1987 JDCLARK at 23:54 EDT The problem with C= Service centers is that they want you to leave the machine--despite the fact that what you want to try will take only 15 min... By the way, surprisingly the 80 col video chip in the 128D seems to be a 8568! Has anyone heard of this 'upgrade' of the 8563? JDCLARK ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 9 Wed Aug 05, 1987 GBARRETT [VISION100] at 19:55 CDT By the way...service centers can't just "swap chips"...they have to replace the WHOLE BOARD (CBM rules)...and the replacement boards for 128D are "on the way any day now" (God, I've heard that so often..........) ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 11 Fri Aug 07, 1987 JDCLARK at 00:11 EDT By the way, does that apply to socketed chips? It seems silly to replace the entire board when the suspicious chip is socketed. JDCLARk ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 12 Fri Aug 07, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 01:59 EDT From past experience, most of the service centers I have dealt with were more than willing to simply replace offending chips instead of entire boards (rules or no rules). Only one way to find out what your local center can do for you...ask them. ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 13 Wed Feb 08, 1989 COMP-U-CRAFT at 23:23 EST 80 col. problem.. The letters A-G have the left sides missing also the top line and half of the one under it have half @ signs.. This is true at all times after power up.. The 40 col screen is ok.. I replaced the 8563 thinking this was the problem but no results.. I then thought it was the Kernal and figured since I was replacing it I may as well go for the ROM Upgrade.. STILL bad 80 colm display.. When I run Geos 128 in 80 col there are horizontal lines about 1in to 1.5in part and when I print my work the the blank lines show in the printout! What chip do I need?? Hope someone can help.. can be reached at 518-725-2173 or here of course.. Thanks!! ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 14 Thu Feb 09, 1989 C128.CPM [Bill] at 08:57 EST U22 would be my first choice, too. I would guess that something is dragging down either the inputs or outputs to the 8563. Pins 26 to 33 are the inputs and should be pulsing. If not, then you will have to lift each leg (or cut trace) of the suspect to see if the problem is prior to the 8563. Pins 43 to 46 are the output, and from there go to the U24 buffer. You will need a scope to check pin 20 (V-sync) and pin 3 (H-sync) which also go to U24. From there, the it splits depending if your using RGB, or monochrome. Since your screen dump is also showing the problem, check your inputs, first. These inputs arrive from U23 and U25 (RAM) pins 14,13,12,11,8,7,6,&10 and are also suspect. Logic probe or scope is needed. ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 15 Fri Feb 10, 1989 A.GOTT [ShoeshineB] at 19:24 PST I too have a problem with my 128 video display. When I turn the 128 on, it just puts up a gray screen. Has anyone had this problem? I think it may be the VIC chip, but since I lack the tools and test equipment (and TECH MANUAL), I have no idea where to begin. It happened one day when I was screwing around with my modem if that is any help. Adam ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 16 Sat Feb 11, 1989 HORO [-SysOp-] at 04:05 EST This may sound silly, but never overlook the obvious: Is your 40/80 key in the right position? ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 17 Sun Feb 12, 1989 A.GOTT [ShoeshineB] at 17:15 PST Don't I wish it was only the 40/80 column key!!! No, it is much worse than that Here are the circumstances (in case ANYONE can give their 2 cents worth): 1: it happened one day when I was screwing around with the user port and 1670 (which hasn't really worked 100% of the time since I got the modem). I was touching things in the OPEN modem with a screwdriver (stupid I know, but it is too late to lecture me on that one!). I touched one post of a transformer and the video was instantly lost! 2: After taking a brief look at the schematics, I decided that the 6526 chip must be bad and replaced it with a 6526A chip (I was told that this will work the same, although it is a 2 mhz chip). Still no luck with replacing U4, so I replaced the other 6526 chip with the old one that I had pulled and still no effect. 3: a visual inspection of all components provided no insight to the problem 4: Upon turning on of the 128, it doesn't seem to access the disk drive the way that it should be, I left the disk out and it seemed to do a 64 type power up, no matter what mode it was in. When the computer is reset, it doesn't do ANYTHING to the drive like it should be doing. 5: I also thought that it could be the VIC chip, but I tried to boot it up in 80 column mode with the same results, a BLACK SCREEN with no sign of life. This would seem to mean that the vic chip is fine (either that or the vic and the 80 column chips both went bad! (which is hard to imagine)) If anyone could help me with this problem, I would be most grateful. I have test equipment available for use (at work) with the exception of a logic probe, so any and all advice would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Adam ------------ Category 14, Topic 37 Message 18 Sun Feb 19, 1989 COMP-U-CRAFT at 09:54 EST Thanks.. c18.cpm [Bill].. I checked the input as you said to the 8563 and shure thing.. the u25 ship was shot.. I decided to upgrade to the 4464 instead of the 4416's that were there.. I soldered in sockets and if they were Sears chips I found them at Radio Shack of all places for 1.99 each.. these may not be the same 4464's but at that price I ordered them! I will let you know if they work /s ************ Topic 42 Wed Dec 31, 1986 THE-REF [KEN_S] at 22:29 EST Sub: Monochrome and the 128 Request for information on the use of monochrome monitors and the C-128. 7 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 42 Message 1 Wed Dec 31, 1986 THE-REF [KEN_S] at 22:32 EST Happy New Year All! Within the next few days I'm going to lose my trusty Comrex monitor (green , croll, uit ?s screen) and will be looking for another, either a green or amber screen for the 80 col side of my 128. Since I spend a great deal of time staring at the screen I wouldn't mind spending the money to get a quality display. Will the IBM composites that have a DB-9 (RGB) plug be compatible with the 128? What about the TTL monitors like the Amdek 310, is there a cable that will allow me to use them? Finally, if there is a particular monitor that you would recommend I would greatly appreciate the help. Thanks, Ken ------------ Category 14, Topic 42 Message 2 Wed Dec 31, 1986 GARYW at 21:37 CST Yes, yes, and yes. I am using a Leading Edge RGBI monitor and it is great. Much better than the 1902 or (A). Just about any 640 by 200 monitor should work. ------------ Category 14, Topic 42 Message 3 Thu Jan 01, 1987 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] at 11:22 PST I use a Zenith Amber monochrome and I think it's one of the better monochromes for the 128. Just run one wire from pin 7 and another from pin 1 (of the 128) to the input and off you go. Amber monitors are like anything else...they take a little time to get used to...but within a week I ended up preferring it over my green one. The Zenith resolution is excellent. I'm sure if you visit a few Zenith/heathkit or similar computer stores you should be able to see one in actual use. Good luck- Courtney *********** Topic 54 Mon Apr 20, 1987 LYLEG at 21:49 CDT Sub: 8563 Bit-Map Capabilties! expane de ing the memory on for the 8563 and what to do with it. 13 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 1 Mon Apr 20, 1987 LYLEG at 21:56 CDT Recently a little has been written about doing bit-mapped graphics with the , croll, uit ?s 8563. However CBM did not give us enough memory to do that. The 8563(our blessed 80 col chip) has its own memory. a And CBM only gave it 16k. in two 16k X 4 bit DRO AM chips. Just recently & 64K X 4 bit memory chips became availible that an replace the 16k chips. Namely U23 and U25 are 81416(or4416 4416) and you can replace them with 4464's. Now the 80 col video has 64k of memory and you can do bit-mapped graphics amoung other things. Now be f fore you go out and buy the new chips, you do have to desolder the old chips and that is no job for the amatur er eur! (or if your unit is still under warrenty). I have successfully donw i e it to my machine. However I am not a programmer, I am a hardware hacker! Has anyone else played with this or th have any programs that can take advantage of the extra memory for the 8563? Lyle ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 2 Tue Apr 21, 1987 SPARROW.J at 00:55 EDT The Staff of Twin Cities 128 has done extensive playing around with 64K VDC rams. You can find all kinds of info on programming with them in back issues of Twin Cities 128: The Commodore 128 Journal. Also, Louis Wallace's new product BASIC 8.0 supports 64k VDC RAMs for all kinds of miracles and wonders. In addition the new C-128D has 64k of VDC RAM in it right from the factory. --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 3 Mon Apr 20, 1987 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] at 22:53 PDT Sparrow- All risks of damage aside, do you recommend the upgrade from 16k to 64k? Courtney ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 4 Tue Apr 21, 1987 MAYSMITCHELL [SounDesign] at 19:02 EDT Hi Courtney and Sparrow, First of all- anything you can do with the Vic-II chip you can do with the Vic-III (8563) chip. This all takes programming routines and so forth (which are bilt into the Vic II already (or as they say the OS)...secondly I *highly* recommended switching over too the 8563 with 64K ram if you use programs that make use of this and you want to do your own fancy programming. With enough memory you can make some very powerful screens with the detail close to that of an Amiga (But in black and white). -Ken Mays ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 5 Tue Apr 21, 1987 SPARROW.J at 19:16 EDT Yes, I think the 64K upgrade is a good idea, but only if you know what you are doing as far as soldering and unsoldering chips to the motherboard, or you have it done by someone who does. --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 6 Tue Apr 21, 1987 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] at 19:04 PDT Well, I managed to upgrade the 17xx so maybe I'll give this a try. That 1700 was an education in de-soldering. Courtney ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 7 Wed Apr 22, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 02:43 EDT Compared to modifications on a TRS Mod 102, those 17xx pins were *huge*! [We had faith in ya, Courtney!] If you plan on doing the 8563 mod, drop by an electronics store and pick up a special chip tip for your soldering iron. It'll really help you breeze along with the desoldering. This way, you can apply heat to all of the chips pins at once and yank the sucker right out. ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 8 Wed Apr 22, 1987 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] at 19:10 PDT True...it does allow you to yank the whole chip at once: BUT it usually destroys the chip in the process. (usually, not always) Using a low power iron means holding that special tip on the chip pins for an awful long time. More often than not, the heat destroys the chip. As you have prob- abily noticed, chips can't take much heat before getting flaky...and this method will generally cook them out of existance. I'm one of those weirdos that hates to throw anything away...including chips. You know, you never know when you might find another use for them. Heck, I've still got some vaccum tubes hanging around...just in case. Courtney ------------ ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 10 Sat Apr 25, 1987 T.MENEGATOS [Tom] at 00:58 EDT Anybody know what a 4264 RAM chip is? I opened my 128 to get a look at how difficult it might be to replace the 4416, but it had 2 4264's instead. I've been trying to find out what a 4264 is, and nobody seems to be sure. (Even asked Fred Bowen at CBM) If someone could tell me where to get a program that attempts to use the 64K, I'd appreciate it so I could find out whether I already have it. ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 11 Sat Apr 25, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 02:45 EDT I would think that since the 4416's are 16K chips with 18 pins, and the 4464's are 64K chips with 18 pins, and the 4164's are 64K chips with 16 pins, then it's logical to assume that 4264's are 64K chips of some type pin configuration. (Just a guess, and not likely true, but it makes sense). How many pins ya got on that thing, Tom? The November and December issues of TC-128 had articles by John Kress which detailed programming techniques for the expanded VDC. Perhaps Loren will donate a line or two? ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 12 Sun Apr 26, 1987 LYLEG at 10:56 CDT Tom, When I was playing around, I typed in some of the programs in the Programmers Reference Guide. If you put a Zero on 49152($c000) and if the first character in the upper left hand corner changes into a @ then you have 16k of video memory. If it does not then you have 64k. As a matter of fact you can poke to any 16k boundary and it appears the same way on the screen. $0000 or $$4000 or $8000 or$c000 Hope this helps. Lyle ------------ Category 14, Topic 54 Message 13 Wed May 27, 1987 JRWOLF at 01:25 EDT I have done mods on lots of equipment (Yes, even macintosh owners void warantees!) I have found that trying to save a couple of $3 chips (Wait, make that $2.50) is not worth it. The easiest way to pull any chip is to clip the leads and then pull the leads out using a LOW wattage iron (15 watts is good, even Radio Shack sells one.) I could care less about the chip I'm pulling, I'm more concerned about pulling up the traces on the circuit board. (That is NOT pulling them up) A good CLEAN tip is important as well, none of those shovel tips Radio Shack sells with the exception of the 15 watt iron is worth a plcent. After the pins have been pulled, go back with a solder sucker or solder wick to clean out the holes. Heating from one side and sucking from the other works best when using the thumb presses solder suckers. (By the way, the cheapo looking plastic sucker RS sells is better than the alluminum version they also sell) As for sockets, don't use Radio Shack sockets unless you can't get anything better, they only make contact on one side of the pins. Those 4264 chips are 64k chips, 4*16K that is, I'm not positve on this, I just remember running into something like that before. The 4464 chips are actually 256k chips (K bit that is). ************ ************ Topic 74 Sat Jan 14, 1989 A.FRAMMPTON at 14:43 EST Sub: 80 COL olumn Display Problem 80 co Columns Kicks out Ou out while online with Terminal software. Sometimes it shifte s left about one third screen. sometimre es it goes out to black. Anyone? got have any ideas? 9 message(s) total. ************ =END=