This is an edited transcript of the May 7, 1989 conference featuring Fred Bowen of Commodore. The Minutes are provided by Sam. We open with the deep and learned preconference chatter: Ted, you always use Sam! <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Whew! Tonight we start an hour early! ---What do you mean?? I usually use Jenny. Thought I'd go equal opportunity, tonight. Yup, that way we all get to bed on time :] hehehe <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> fat chance, Bill! How was your weekend, Fred? Not long enough, Bill. <[Joe, Sysop] J.WISEMAN3> I've gotta ask...What kind of computer you on Fred?? C128, of course. FredBowen, How about some of your past history? Fred...Have heard alot of rummours about new c64 128 designs and new hardware??? <[Joe, Sysop] J.WISEMAN3> Excellent choice! Good question, W.R. Fred, how long at CBM, now?? <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Ted wants to stuff pretzels in my mouth??? <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Nooo. not your mouth. I wouldn't want to lose a finger.... <[paul] P.AULECIEMS> read the interesting article in a few weeks back issue of WSJ with interview of CEO at commodore..he said the 64 and 128 WERE going to be re-designed.. Shall we have this a formal conference with everyone using the /RAI command to ask Fred Questions?? Time to start, Ted?? <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Ok. You want to explain things? <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Room is now listen-only. Formal Conference has begun. Sure........OK, We want to welcome Fred Bowen, of Commodore to our little gathering. In case your not familiar with the /rai command, if you have a question, just type /rai and Ted will keep the queue in order. So as an intro...... Fred, could you give us some of your background and also how you came to work for CBM? G/A mmmmmMMmMMmmmm- AH, I can speak! <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Well, type. Sure Bill- lemme think (and type, smartie:-) <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> About 16 years ago, I decided that working 3rd shift at a gas station was not what I wanted to do for life (it wan't much fun either.) I walked into MOS Technology, and found someone there who went to the same college as I did (Ursinus, Collegeville PA), and he gave me a job mixing chemicals third shift. What luck, as they say. Is that enough or doya want more? :-) MOS was at that time owned by CBM? That was LONG before CBM bought MOS-it was before there was a 6502. .....and when did you shift over to CBM? Well, this guy named Jack bought CBM some time later. I was apparently part of the deal, although I don't recall being asked. I figured "what the heck", and went with the flow. OK, Ted, do we have any questions in the Q? <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Yes we do. Paul? <[paul] P.AULECIEMS> Hello. Fred, I wanted to ask you about the persistent rumors concerning the redesign of the 64/128 and the new hardware?? I'm sure there are alot of questions about the things that Irving Gould hinted. I cannot talk about thhem, unfortunately. <[paul] P.AULECIEMS> Yeah..I saw the article in the WSJ with the interview of Gould... <[paul] P.AULECIEMS> can you tell us if we can look forward to ANY new type of hardware products/redesign (yes/no)??? l) We are ALWAYS working on new designs! Remember the C64D? The C256? They were real re-designs from pst years. This year is no different, except maybe <[paul] P.AULECIEMS> yes fred :) but will we see a one on the market for us LOYAL COMMODOREPHILES?? Irv likes the posibilities better, perhaps. GA The 64D had a built in '81, Fred? Yes. It supported fast/burst serial, autoboot, etc. I have the only one :-) If there was to be a new CBM 8 bit...... could it be compat. with 64 software? Wouldn't that be a neat idea? I'll think about it :-) What type of drive mechanism is used in the 1571? Are the IBM type 360k mitsumis....Sorry about the garbage. I have some problems. Are they a direct replacement (just plug in?) The 1571 drive mechanism is supplied by several vendors. While it may be possible to directly replace it with an IBM compatible, there are the obvious differences like cable pinouts, LED, etc. I have not tried it, so I cannot tell you what difficulties you might encounter. GA OK. Fred, many people have wondered if the 64 can 'do' over 2400 B without a hardware UART. Can it?? Sure- toss out the kernel and write a special bit twiddler. Desterm does 9600 baud I understand. But it doesn't interpret BASIC :-) OK, but are there any UART's for the 64 coming out from CBM?? I doubt it seriously (but I'll never say "no"). OK, Thanks. <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Ok, J. Rivera, your question. Any chance of another upgrade for VT100 (like Y-modem)? Maybe, but I'm a bit tied up right now. I'd like to improve it. <[Ed] E.R.FLINN> Hi, Fred. Two things that I personally think would help insure success of this mystery machine that may or may not be in the offing. Some provision for access to a "standard" Hard Disk...IBM would be cheapest, but I suspect SCSI would be a *whole* lot easier and that UART we all want. I can't see giving up my 128 to go back to 1200 bps. g/a Anything is possible, for a price, of course. Believe me...I have a pretty good idea what kinds of things would be desired by current C64/128 folks- they are always one of my prime concerns. GA <[Ed] E.R.FLINN> OK then, take it as a vote of confidence. Roger dodger! Any chance for hardware upgrade to make the 1750 a switch selectable ram disk drive? g/a What do you mean? Some of the programs that do not support the 1750 might be able to work with something like drive 9 if the 1750 was drive 9. There is a RAMdisk driver for the RAM expanders which lets you select the unit number (or change it anytime as you would a 1541 for example). Is this what you mean? but some programs do not have the room to allow the ramdos to stay in memory RAMDOS only requires 1 page of memory. Sometime you have to experiment and find a page that will not conflict with your application. Usually though the compatibility problem is somewhere else. BobsTerm Pro is a prime example, I understand it has every page full. Programs like that would be difficult to support, obviously! :-) <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Ok, J. Rivera? Are the businesspeople taking Mr. Lovhaug seriously? I dunno, I hope so- Loren makes alot of sense, although I don't know if he knows all the difficulties. Loren's idea is not unique+ CBUG, the B-series user group, got the license to use, make, sell, etc. the B-series computers when Commodore discontinued them. It's a business decision, which I hope takes the consumer into consideration. I'm sure CBM could get a % fee on every new 8 bit sold. There are still DC3's flying. CBUG still has some 3000 members (in the US- more abroad). <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Ok, Newnorm? Thanks for being here tonight.....Two questions...One..Is Commodore dropping the 128? Nope- but *stores* are reluctant to carry it on their shelves. Well...that may have something to do with Commodore's somewhat non-existant marketing strategy. That may be, but there are many sides to the subject. Honestly, the C128 is not a very profitable machine to make, and for that reason there is This is very true.......As you can tell I am a C-128 purist. Thanks not alot of money spent to support it. Naturally, it's a catch-22 situation. But "they" are surprised that the C128's continue to sell to this day as well as they do. GA Can you use a guy who'll work fairly cheap to sell the C-128? That's all You'd make more $$$ becoming a dealer and selling them youself :-) Grin....I'll hush now..... <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Bill? Thanks, Ted. Fred, Since Mr. Toy has left, and Mr. Copperman has headed the CBM Group, have there been any recent changes that you've noticed? Not from where I sit. OK, If you were totally in charge of re-designing the 64/128....... Geez. for an upgrade, what would *YOU* like to see in them?? Sorry Bill- that subject has to be closed. You should know what I'd like to see in a system. OK, Sorry, I thought I was asking for a wish list. no problem. But any *real* system has to meet very tight cost points, etc. That means there are bound to be alot of tradeoffs. Have no fears, if there is a chance of sticking something neat into some hypothetical future system, I'll try like hell to do it. Enuf said. Sorry. OK, Thanks. What if CBM had designed the 64 with a paralell bus would it have stomped BIG BLUE? Minor point-CBM is the US sales company. Commodore International LTD is ... headquartered in the Caymans the "company" I work for. I don't think that the width of the peripheral bus would have made that much of a difference. But the bus width DOES determine the disk transfer speed which was one of the early complaints about the 64. GA Sure, but there are other factors too. The C64 swapped speed for "intelligence" and ultra-low cost. You cannot criticize it today for what it was several years ago. I had the great pleasure of working with a Franklin(Apple Compat.) at work a while back. It made me want to hug my Commodore. The screen editor alone... Basic 7.0 is the greatest. Does Commodore think of the C128 as their sparse ads a year or two ago might suggest? Crap Does Commodore think of the C-128 as a toy? Well, I think you are equating "commodore" to the marketing/sales folks. There are people at Commodore who like & use the C128 (although the number is giving way rapidly to Amigas). There are many at Commodore who do know the slightest thing about C128. I don't think anyone believes the C128 is a toy. They have a difficult time figuring out just how to categorize the C128 I think. ga I find it more than an introductory computer. I think in better times it could have cleaned house with IBM any day. GA and thanks again....over There are those who think the B-series were that- <фредбовен> PARALLEL BUS AND ALL! вHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE б-SERIES?? <невнорм> бEFORE MY TIME. ьMAS 1986 <фредбовен> тHAT'S MY POINT. тHE ц128 IS A ц64/SERIAL VERSION OF THE б-SERIES. GA <[тED, сYSOP] до-рае-ми> сTEVE? <[сTEVE] с.процтор1> хELLO, фRED, JUST WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT. <фредбовен> сURE <[сTEVE] с.процтор1> и THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM, MANY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ц64/128 REALLY ARE CAPABLE OF. <фредбовен> и AGREE. <[сTEVE] с.процтор1> и STILL REMEMBER WHEN и WROTE MY OWN ббс, IN басиц AT 300 BAUD, AND IMPRESSED SOME ибм PEOPLE. оNE EVEN ASKED HOW A "TOY COMPUTER" COULD DO ALL THIS. <фредбовен> бUT... <[сTEVE] с.процтор1> тHIS WAS AROUND 3 YRS AGO. <фредбовен> WHILE аMIGA CELIBRATES THE SHIPPING OF THEIR 1 MILLIONTH аMI, <фредбовен> WE ALL SMUGLY KNOW THERE ARE TWICE THAT MANY ц128'S. <фредбовен> тO MANY, A "TOY" COMPUTER IS A "HOME" COMPUTER. тHAT'S ALL. <[тED, сYSOP] до-рае-ми> OK, бILL? <ц128-билл> ок, тED. фRED, вHAT'S 'HOT' OVERSEAS FOR цбм 8-BITS HARDWARE? <фредбовен> вHAT DO YOU MEAN? цOMMODORE EQUIPMENT OR 3RD PARTY HARDWARE? <ц128-билл> цбм STUFF. <фредбовен> дON'T REALLY KNOW. тHEY SELL MORE ц64'S AND ц128'S OVERSEAS THAN HERE, BUT THEM THEY SELL MORE EVERYTING OVER THERE THAN HERE. OR SO IT SEEMS. <ц128-билл> иNTERESTING, ANY REASON FOR THAT? пRICE? <фредбовен> тHEY SEEM TO BUY WHAT'S PRACTICAL. <ц128-билл> ок, ONE MORE ON THE '71 DRIVE. аNY FEAR OF DISCONTINUATION OF THESE, AS BEFORE? <фредбовен> аGAIN, THE PROBLEM IS FINDING STORES WHICH WILL CARRY IT, APPARENTLY. и'M TOLD цOMMODORE WILL SHIP 1571'S TO ANYONE, MINIMUM ORDER 1 CASE (4 1571 PER CASE), BUT и DON'T KNOW DETAILS. <ц128-билл> тHAT IS GREAT NEWS. бEFORE WE OPEN THE CONFERENCE UP и'D LIKE TO MENTION THAT WE SYSOPS IN THE фLAGсHIP HAVE WORKED VERY HARD AT CLEANING UP THE б.б. HERE, AND WILL BE SOON ANNOUNCING SOME INTERESTING пRODUCT сUPPORT PEOPLE. вHILE WE ARE ALMOST READY....... FILM AT 11:00 .....фRED, и WANT TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, TONIGHT. и REALIZE THAT YOU ARE CALLING л.д., AND REALLY APPRECIATE IT! и OWE YA ANOTHER LUNCH! <фредбовен> гLAD TO BE HERE- AND и APPRECIATE THE еастерн TIME! <ц128-билл> тED, DO WE WANT TO RELEASE THE ROOM? <[тED, сYSOP] до-рае-ми> оK, и AM THROWING THE FLOOR OPEN TO QUESTIONS & COMMENTS! <ц128-билл> сTILL LOOKING FOR A ц128д EXTENSION CHORD, фRED. гUESS и'LL MAKE ONE! Still would like to see a good, low-cost hard drive . <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Grin. I want stereo. Hanging onto your system, no doubt. Yup! hehehe You can SEE one in many stores... :-) But owning one is a tad different. You can own one- they'll sell 'em to you! Well, at least I didn't bring up CP/M . <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> True, but it takes a little mortgage. Grin. For 800-900 bucks, I'd by an xt. Fred, we still use our 128's for work . <[Ed] E.R.FLINN> QA on the bargain basement clones is kinda, uh, sparse True, Ed. You don't know what your buying till you try it out. Fred, does Commodore ever have a surplus sale? Not that I know of. That would be a nifty idea. Oh well, I can dream. The legal folks see liability problems selling stuff like that. <[Ed] E.R.FLINN> I wonder what all the rumors of the imminent demise of the 128 are doing to sales Last I heard, they were not affecting C128 sales all that much, but I don't have or know any actual numbers on that. I think Mr. Toy mentioned that 64 sales were up, he didn't mention the 128. He was probably lumping all 8-bit sales into that. Hmmm, OK. Gee, what is Max doing now-adays?? Probably mowing... hehehe.... poor guy, he must have the bucks to retire. Well, people on that level generally don't have to worry too much about where they'll find a job. Ya, I guess he can always manage his portfolio. Well guys- I spent a morning in the attic, an afternoon with some old time hackers, and a evening with you folks. <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Sounds like a day well spent. OK, Fred.... Thanx again!! I hope my wife tapes War and Rememberance... any questions before I go??? were you in the service? <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Please grace our happy little group again sometime. No- never in the service (almost- draft lottery #1 in '73) <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> Fred, working on adding a 6551 ACIA to my C64. I have it installed at $D480, and partly working. I can set the registers, and r ead the status flag, but can't get it to send data to itself. Probably have the hardware lines set wrong. The 6551 is very picky about DTR, RTS/CTS, etc. <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> All tied low, the peek of the status returns a 16. Transmit register empty. <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> DCD and DSR will show when high on the status register. Tied low??? You want them pulled up I think. <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> DCD must be low to receive. It looked like the rest just set flags, except <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> CTS, it must be low to transmit. Fred, Been having probs with my C128, had it in a shop 2 times a friend thinks its my power supply. It has Video Glitches in 80 col mode, mostly noticible with Geos. I get what is about the size of the lower staff of upper case "L"'s. usually about 4 or 5 of em all over the screen. Alot of times it turns out to be a bad power *switch*. Either dirty or broken solder connections. <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> Bill, I checked both my drives for alignment. My 5 yr old 1541 is still very good. The other drive has problems, doesn't look alignment. Too bad, Steve...... major repair?? <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> Its a new 1541/C in a 1541 case. I have also had a few times when I turned off the puter, and it wouldnt turn back on till I tuurned off the power to the supply & turned it back on. That sounds like the switch, I know enough electronics to clean a switch. I'll try that! Thanks! It sounds like it could be the supply, but I'd still check the switch first. <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> I don't know, haven't found the source. It won't read the tracks inside of the center track, but will to the outside, as normal. <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> How odd. Not that odd-the center tracks are the most dense. Check motor speed or diskette quality (it can be too good, you know). <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> Richy, check the chip, make sure its seated, that caused me a CIA to misteriously fail, 8 keys and a joystick port with some programs, but not others. Which Chip Steve? <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> I don't remember the # off hand. I work mostly in PET's, and C64's. <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> Fred, its using 1541 physical exam. It reads track 1 normal, track 16 and 35 show *'s only on towards the inside, about 5-6 thou- sand's, which is good, and to 0 to 1 inside. I'm planning to get a 128-d soon anyway, for the 2nd 1571 and keep this for back up. I will likely be doing a data base for work, "for pay" and want to stablize my hardware situation. <[Steve] S.PROCTOR1> I liked the 128D, I used one at Software To-Go, sortof hated to go back to my C64, I like that detatched keyboard. It will be for funding statistics for a Crisis Team. I'm outta here people- see you whenever...! take care Fred <[Ted, Sysop] DO-RAE-MI> Good night Fred. OK, People thanks for coming!