************
Topic 16        Sat Dec 06, 1986
C.HOGAN                      (Forwarded) 
Sub: How To Start A BBS                     

what is needed to do it?
9 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 1         Sat Dec 06, 1986
C.HOGAN                      (Forwarded) 
 
I need help, I want to start a BBS but do not know to much about it. Can
someone recomed a BBS prog. that will work with a westridge modem, a 128 in
128 mode, a 1571 disk drive, and be able to have commodore and apple computers
use it. It must have the ability to have multi users at once, with passwords,
and possibly a CB simuklatoer. Also, it is only a part-time board so if i turn
off the computer will everything be lost(mail,software,etc.)? It must have up-
down loading capabilities and auto-cyceling E-Mail. Can I d-load one that can
do all of this from the sofware libraries on GEniw or is one like this
impossible with my equipmnt. Oh. i also have a 1541 disk drive.

                        thank you,
                   Chris Hogan

PS. My modem is 300 baud.
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 2         Sat Dec 06, 1986
MAYSMITCHELL [SounDesign]    (Forwarded) 
 
Hello Chris,

as for the C128, it was never designed as a multi-user machine. and trying to
do it with the equipment you have is very near im@posiblle as you would slow
down the system to nothing doing multiuser functions.
 know of no software available that can do multiusers on a C128 BBS system nor
do I thionk there ever will be one (unless you do farther
 board supporting XModem should work fine.
        *SounDesign*
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 3         Sun Dec 07, 1986
C.HOGAN                      (Forwarded) 
 
ALRIGHT, SCRUB THE PART ABOUT MULTI-USERS. HOW ABOUT THE PART ABOUT EVERYTHING
BEEING LOST IF I TURN OFF THE COMPUTER? COULD YOU PLEASE RECOMEND A PROG. TO D-
LOAD?

                       CHRIS HOGAN
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 4         Tue Dec 09, 1986
DEB [*deb!*]                 at 17:04 EST
 
BBS'ing 101 - by someone who has/does -----------

   Choosing and running a BBS has several aspects which you should seriously
consider before making a choice.  First, understand that most serious BBS
programs will store EVERYTHING on disk, so that if you do lose power or have
to take it down for something else that you will NOT loose the messages,
announcements, downloads, etc.  With everything except the software which runs
it on disk, the speed of your drive and the capacity of the drive become
incredibly important.  When I'm not here on GEnie <and lord only KNOWS how
much storage this RoundTable takes here!>, I operate a 3 MEG BBS for our local
Commodore users here at home.  Even 3 MEG, running at IEEE speeds with my C-64
seems at times slow and I'm constantly running out of room.

   The main features a BBS may have include:

     *> Messages
     *> Private E-Mail
     *> Downloading
     *> Chat with the Sysop
     *> Announcements/Bulletins
     *> Polling/Voting
     *> Games

Messages --------

   Your message base is sometimes the most important part of a local BBS.  Its
an open forum where people who share interests, computers, or other binding
forces and who all live in the same general area can communicate with each
other, but they can communicate at their own leisure.  Truly, there are people
who live in the same town, belong to the same users group as I do and whom I
NEVER see or speak to on the phone, but we have been leaving messages and
visiting on the boards for YEARS.  A message base can have several features, 
some of them more important than others, depending on just what you need it to
be and to do.  Probably the easiest mistake to make when considering BBS
software is to figure that 'messages are messages' and not 'test drive' the
use of the message board.  Look for any or some of these things.  Think about
just which ones might be more important to the way you want your BBS to be
used by its members:

     *> Absolute message number addressing 
     *> Automatic 'roll over' and deletion of old messages as new ones fill up
     *> Ability to REPLY to a message, and have it remember both the
        USER you are replying to and the subject of the message.
     *> Notation of 'There are Replies' to a message which has more discussion
     *> Private Messages
     *> Restricted Message boards
     *> Text formatting to the width the member selects.  <<IE, 40 or 80>>
     *> Automatic word wrap when people ENTER messages
     *> Editing options prior to saving the message
     *> Members are informed which messages are TO them when they log in
     *> Ability to read messages non stop
     *> message SCANNING <<just the to/from and subject lines>>
     *> Highest message numbers you've read are remembered by the BBS from 
        visit to visit...a READ NEW works.
     *> Multiple 'sub-boards' or categories
     *> minimum disk storage for the messages
     *> Ability to direct message boards to several disk drives, as needed
     *> Special announcements/instructions automatically appear as member
        enters specific message boards
     *> good sized message capacity.  Many boards limit you to 25 lines of
        40 characters.  Just TRY to leave any kind of cogent reply to an
        important discussion about ANYTHING in 1000 CHARACTERS or less!
     *> Ability to SEARCH the messages ...
         SEARCH TO:username
         SEARCH FROM:username
         SEARCH Subject:'string'

   Also, there are two major constructions of multiple categories on a BBS.  
One of them has each message base category on a separate menu, with the user
moving thru menues to each one he's interested in.  The other keeps all the
categories in one large message base, so that there are no menu switchings to
go thru to read all the new messages.  Usually, these kind of message bases
allow you to select and de-select which message bases you want to read.  If
you have only a C-64, for instance, you might not want to even read the C-128
message area...and you'd just de-select or cancell it.

   There are several ways to evaluate how well a BBS *works*.  1. Go use an
existing one running the software you have your eyes on for a bit. 2. Ask
several SYSOPS who run the BBS software. 3. TEST it yourself, with simulated
users, or a few good friends for a couple
   of weeks.  be lengthy, tho.  Give it a good workout!!!


Private E-Mail --------------

   Private Mail is accomplished one of two ways-or sometimes both!  The first
and most common way is to have a completely separate E-Mail area which is ONLY
for private mail between the members of your BBS.  The second way is to allow
private messages on the regular message boards, but which are invisible to
everyone except the person that wrote the message and the person the  message
is to.

   Sometimes E-Mail is not appropriate for the kind of board you need to put
up, and if this is the case, you'll want to be SURE that it CAN be turned off!


Downloading -----------

   Touted sometimes as the basic reason to HAVE a BBS, the downloading of
public domain software is always a popular item.  There are some
considerations here as you decide what you want to provide. 

     *> Which protocol do you want to use?  XMODEM, PUNTER, or both?
     *> Will it allow you to LIST a text file as well as receive it under 
        protocol download?
     *> Does it work properly at all supported baud rates and protocols?
     *> Does it allow you to create your own directory listing with small
        descriptions of the files?
     *> Does it give users direct access to your own disk directory <a nono!>
     *> Are users expected to remember the ENTIRE filename from a long list
        and type it in correctly?
     *> Are the downloads numbered for easier reference?
     *> Can the downloads libraries be divided?
     *> Can the actual directories referenced by the library area be on 
        more than just 1 disk drive?
     *> Are new uploads avail immediately,hidden, or can you choose?
     *> Is there a QUICK filenames only listing of a directory available
        as well as a longer one with descriptions?
     *> Can you put up 'special' files invisibly-those with the right filename
        could download it if they knew the filename?
     *> Can you place parts of your downloads in a restricted area?
     *> If people have full message board priviledges, are full download
        library priviledges automatically assumed?
     *> If using XMODEM, how are TEXT files place on the disk?  In ASCII,
        PETSCII or whatever they show up in?
     *> Is there a way to tell how long a file is before its downloaded?
     *> Is there a way for the sysop to automagically move a new uploaded
        file into the public downloads area without taking the board down?
     *> Will the software keep track of which files are downloaded and how
        many times?
     *> Will the software tell WHO uploaded the file so that other members
        can easily refer questions to him/her?!



More Features -------------

   Other favorites include CHAT...where the member calling in can request the
sysop to type, in real time with them.  Its always nice to be able to have the
software 'know' you are not REALLY there, and tell folks that when they
request this feature.  All the boards I've ever used have always indicated
both VISUALLY and AUDIBLY when a CHAT request was made.  The screen turns a
bright border color and stays that way until the user logs off.  That way, if
I come by just after a chat request, I'd know at a brief glance that I had
been paged.

   Announcements and Bulletins are an important feature.  This would include
the ability to CONFIGURE YOUR OWN short text displays.  Somethings which we've
put on these kind of menues before have included:

     *> Local BBS Numbers
     *> Club Calendar
     *> Club Notices
     *> Sysop's Notepad
     *> News
     *> Tips/columns

   Some BBS's can also display a notice to EVERYONE who logs in.  The best 
feature is to have this automatic display just be visible once to everyone.
Most software, however, only allows you to post a file from your disk which
EVERYONE sees EVERYTIME they log in unti you change it.

   Games, Polls, Surveys are all extra and favorite features of many BBS's and
software.  If these things are important to the atmosphere of your BBS, make
SURE that you 'test drive' them and that they fill your needs!!  There is
nothing more frustrating than going online with BBS software only to find out
that it doesn't QUITE work the way you thought it would.

   And some software is aimed directly at CBM users, making use of both
PETSCII instead of translating ASCII, enabling dynamic use of the entire
Commodore character set.


EQUIPMENT ---------

   Also of prime consideration is what hardware you have available for your
BBS and if it will work with the software of your choice.  A Westridge modem,
for instance, really needs to be 'FIXED' into ANSWER only mode to function as
a goo good modem for a BBS.  Some software does not support more than 2 or 3
disk drives.  Other software may not work properly with dual drives.  Some
software claims to work at either 1200 or 300 baud but does not address the
'smart modems' properly to keep the BBS online and reliable.  


FORTITUDE ---------

   When all else is said and done, tho, running ANY BBS requires a dedication
of your time, your money and your talents to make it into a successful and fun
to use system!  Be prepared to become intimately familiar with using a Disk 
Doctor, editing text, writing patches and conversions, translating files to
and from ASCII and PETSCII, and knowing which terminal software out there
works with your software!  

   When you call the phone company to have them install a new line for your
BBS, remember that they don't HAVE to come out in many cases to turn on your
new line.  MANY newer residential phone lines have the capability of a second
line built right in them, and wiring that yourself is as easy as matching
colored wires!  Pull the phone connection out of your wall BEFORE calling the
phone company.  Are there *4* different colored wires there?!  YES?!  then you
can just go down to radio shack and buy the parts you need yourself!

   Shopping List:
   -------------
     *> RJ-13 Junction Box  <it has *3* modular plugins on it>
     *> screwdriver
     *> phone extension cords as needed.

   Thats all there is TO it!  Hook up the new RJ-13 with its colored wires to
match the colors of the wires at your old phone box, screw it in to the wall,
and you're in biz.  Then just wait for the phone company to turn on that extra
line for you!  You see...a phone line only uses *2* of those colored wires!!!


Good Luck! ----------

   As you can see, there are many things to consider when choosing BBS
Software.  And, as someone pointed out before I got here, neither the 64 or
the 128 can support multi users.  However, with some testing and careful
research of existing programs, you are likely going to be able to accomplish
almost exactly what you wanted to with multi-users, with the exception of real-
time CB'ing, of course!

   and truly, the sysops which operate the boards are the BEST resource for a
features listing!  I'm only intimately familiar with 3 programs, and can only
guess at the list of what other programs support or don't support.

   I am currently running INFOQUICK, at 1200 baud and with 3 Megs online.  I
have run RAVICS at both 300 and 300/1200 baud, and am testing Greg Pfountz's
COLOR 64.  Its my opinion that C-64 boards are more reliable and offer more
features and choices at this point than the few C-128 mode boards.

   Perhaps its time for us to ask other SYSOPS here what the features of the
software THEY are using have, and why they like it, don't like it?!


      *deb!*
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 5         Tue Dec 09, 1986
GBARRETT [VISION100]         at 21:42 CST
 
     There ARE a few 128 BBSs that are fairly good...but I have to agree on
INFOQUICK's superiority to most...having used RAVICS, HAL, ELECTRIC MAGAZINE,
MEGASOFT 128, and half a dozen public domain and private BBS programs  in my
quest for the "perfect BBS".  (Still using ZBBS right now, though...one of the
easiest and most crash-proof program around...and with the number of board-
crashers around, that second part is VERY important- -too few BBS programs
make an effort to see to it that the program can't be locked up by extraneous
characters and signals like Stephen did)
     -been gathering BBS software notes for a full comparison one of these
days... -GaryB
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 6         Wed Dec 10, 1986
GARYW                        at 00:17 CST
 
Well, I run my Commodore BBS using TBBS and I think I will saty with it.
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 7         Sun Jan 04, 1987
EPUKANE [Avatar]             at 03:43 PST
 
I know I sound like a broken record when it comes to this sort of question,
but I have to say that the C-Net BBS for both 64 and 128 is the best I've
seen.  It was one of the first systems I logged onto, and it still remains my
favorite as both a user and sysop. We had some legal problems (regarding the
ownership of our copy...we got ripped off by a friend), and at one point I was
ready to  hang it up and use ANY other system. I'm sure glad we didn't!! We
have been running the C-Net 11.0 system for 6 months now (since that version
came out), and truthfully, it's almost easier to use on the SysOp's end than
the user's! What especially amazed me was that after reading Deb's post, I
found myself answering "yes" to almost all the right questions! The only thing
we're missing is the multi-user ability, but... We have both a separate Email
area, as well as the ability to reply privately to a post; posts and responses
are kept under separate titles within their subboards (no more searching for a
message string!); users may reply privately (altho the SysOp sees all names or
handles) to posts if they prefer; and the subboards are limited to 20 separate
areas holding as much data as your drives will allow. the UD section runs the
same as the bulletin area, with separate subboards and similar commands. You
may designate a UD area to show files by title/uploader's name/short
description, or total disk exchange mode (looks just like a regular disk
directory, and the user chooses by filename only.) You can assign both your
message and UD areas to separate drives, in any way that you see fit. It
supports up to 4 drives (whether dual or single...you could actually have the
equivalent of 8 drives online at one time.) Also, it will support hard drives
(we have one coming next week), and the 128 version supports the RAM
expansion. One guy has his doctored so that the whole thing resides in his
expansion. The message editor is a joy to behold:
edit/insert/delete/list/center/justify/detailed help/read/abort...anything you
might want to use is accessable just be pressing ".[letter]" at column one.
All commands are accessed by their first letter, so remembering is really
easy. Also, a feature I haven't seen anywher else is the MCI commands. The
Message Command Interpreter does all sorts of nifty things, from printing a
user's real name or handle wherever you specify, his last call date, phone
number, ringing bells, changing colors (C= graphics mode is fully supported),
changing output speed...everything but walking the dog! When we began running
our own Online magazine, we had a post soliciting articles from our users. Not
knowing much about the "other guys", I wanted to specifically get input from
the other types of computers we support. So with the MCI, I set up a post to
check an input string (in this case either Y or N) with the question, "Do you
have one of these other brands, [handle]?" If they said yes, it asked them to
write something for us. If they said no (meaning they had a C=), then it
branched down to the line reading, "Then you will find something of interest
to you already in the Gfiles." Pretty nifty, huh? The MCI can also be set in
the configuration so that only certain access groups have access to it (we
have it set so only the sysops and subops can use it...Keeps the munchkins
from abusing it!) People are especially tickled to see something that looks
like it is addressed just to them. It also supports news files (to be read at
log-on), General Text files (we use these to post our rules and information
about access levels); and online game programs (we have a whole online casion
set-up, with Craps, Russian Roulette,  Gambling for both extra online time,
access level increase, and download credits, Slot Machine, and Blackjack.)
These are always well-received. As for up/downloading, we currently support
public domain stuff for IBM, Apple, Macintosh, C=64, 128, Amiga, and a few
C/PM files. With both new Punter and Xmodem protocols fully supported, there
is a way for everyone to download. With Punter, you can setup for multiple
downloading also. You can read text files online or download them to read
later.

WHEW! Get the picture? I am a big fan of this program, and the above is only
what the 64 version can do. The 128 version (altho similar) does even more! In
my opinion, there isn't a better program for the Commodore computer than C-
Net.

(I think I actually out-wrote Deb...I get carried away about my BBS...Truly an
modem addict. Sorry I'm so long-winded. And NO, I don't get a commission!
*grin*)
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 8         Mon Jan 05, 1987
GBARRETT [VISION100]         at 20:12 CST
 
That's okay...it's all in the personal preference.  One of the most popular
BBS's in this area is a modified HAL... only addition was WORD WRAP...but the
SYSOP makes the place one of the most friendly around...and THAT can make even
the most limited board the best! -GaryB
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 16
Message 9         Mon Jan 05, 1987
JIM.MAC [* SysOp *]          at 23:15 EST
 
A while back Deb stated that the inards of any BBS is boring, and that it is
the Sysop(s) and the users that make it a good BBS or one of little interest.
GARYB, has it right..."The SYSOP makes the place...." -Jim
 ------------
************
Topic 17        Thu Aug 07, 1986
DEB [*deb!*]                 (Forwarded) 
Sub: Customization of a BBS:General Thoughts

Many times, in addition to the expertise of the users and the Sysop of any
BBS....the 'small touches' you make towards customizing it can help to set the
mood and tenor of your board....
30 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 1         Thu Aug 07, 1986
DEB [*deb!*]                 (Forwarded) 
 
Although this has nothing specifically to do with InfoQuick, I would love to
hear people's thoughts on how InfoQuick can be customized.

I'm going to tell you just a little bit about how RAVICS can be customized,
and what I've done with it....<<of course, if it won't stay up, all the
customization in the world won't amount to a hill of beans...>>

The RAVICS BBS is made up of modules.  These modules can be CALLED by the menu
structure that the Sysop sets up.  Essentially, you create your own menues,
and limit what things on them can be seen by which users, and where they
appear on your BBS.   The callable modules include the ability to move or
manipulate the following items:

    *> Message Bases  <<tho they are limited to all 1 drive>>
    *> File Transfer Libraries  <<an individual library can be on any drive>>
    *> Text files that go with or before menues
    *> Text files that are useful for an information/help area of any menu
    *> Bulletin mode, where people can select from many text files in a menu

And, all the standard things, goodbye, feedback, email, etc.

Because of the above things, I have done the following:

  Main menu leads to:
     EMAIL, MESSAGE BOARDS, SIGS, CLUB ANNOUNCEMENTS, NEWSLETTER ITEMS,
     BBS numbers, Sysop Notepad, FEEDBACK and Chat

   Message Board leads to several separate messaging areas...but you can
   only read them individually.

  SIGS include a message base and Files Transfer, as well as a READ only
message base for exaustive descriptions of new uploads.  

  Club Announcements, Newsletters, Sysop Notepad  all are text bulletin menus,
  having 3 to 10 items on each.  I have even made a restricted bulletin menu
  for BBS staff notes.

  At any rate, all prompts are definable, as are what you CALL them, because
of the way that the menuing is done.  You just type in what you want it to
say, look up the number of the module you want it to call, and enter that in
the menu data.  

        **
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 2         Fri Aug 08, 1986
SURVIVOR [S. Gutknecht]      (Forwarded) 
 



 *DEB*... if it matters...

I tried to make ZBBS flexible for the user... and i set up in this manner
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 3         Fri Aug 08, 1986
SURVIVOR [S. Gutknecht]      (Forwarded) 
 
 GEE I messed that last mesage up!


ZBBS ][ is set up like this.....

  1.  You enter the "key"... since ZBBS is all "autokey" menu's, you
      enter the key... example....  "C".
  2.  You enter the "function" which is for the program... in this
      case you would enter "34"... which is the chat code.
  3.  You enter the "message"... which is what the user sees if they
      type the "key".... example "Chat attempt!".

But you only have 10 menu's to work with... and there are command that
activate other menu's... and the sort.  I could EASILY expand it to more
menu's... but it is not 100% flexible... ie. menu 10 has to be DOWNLOADS,
because the prompt shows what drive the user is on....

------> DOWNLOAD LIBRARY #3 (?-For menu) ----=>

(not anything like show, but gets the idea across)

So to enter this, you would set the file for menu 10 as:

"C" 34 "Chat Attempt!"

But of COURSE there are many other options....


is this the kind of flexibility you like?

THE MENU's themself are disk files, so you can make them look any way you wish
with a SEQ file editor (one built into the BBS).

Of course, this is greatly simplified, but do ya get the idea I tried to use?

Stephen Gutknecht

 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 4         Fri Aug 08, 1986
DEB [*deb!*]                 (Forwarded) 
 
Yea, that's the general idea, Stephen!!  Of course, I can always think of some
silly reason to add a library call to a menu somewhere completely unrelated to
the main menues....

    **  <<all she wants is text files on an InfoQuick menu or two...>>
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 5         Fri Aug 08, 1986
JIM.MAC                      (Forwarded) 
 
Deb,

I think that you will have a number of items on your wish list become
realities on the C=128 version. That version is not going to show up in a
flash.
                 -Jim

 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 6         Fri Aug 08, 1986
SURVIVOR [S. Gutknecht]      (Forwarded) 
 
 I will look into that DEB... sounds like a good Idea...

I **have** to go on vacation, and ZBBS ][ release has been delayed to AUGUST
21st...

ZBBS ][ is 100% BASIC, except for transfers... but it is plenty fast, and
DECENT BASIC code at that.... written much like ML, with jump tables and all.

Where is RICK's XMODEM CRC???????

Deb, when I get ZBBS ][ up, will ya critique it for me?

Stephen Gutknecht


For those who wondered why I use BASIC....

  1.  Blitz! is a decent compiler, and allows me to handel around 1400
      baud ... with sloppy code at that... have been able to have the
      bbs run arund 2000 baud.  ZBBS is desighned to be a 300/1200
      baud BBS, but 2400 is avilable... because transfers are in ML,
      and can handel 2600 baud easily.

  2.  VERY easy to write the code... BASIC is built RIGHT into the
      computer... and users can EASILY modify it if I choose to 
      release the source.  Users can also give me modules that can
      easily be added to the code.

  3.  BASIC has some very powrfull commands... and if I ever can't 
      do something, I can easily turn to ML!


 ------------
------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 8         Sat Aug 09, 1986
GBARRETT [VISION100]         (Forwarded) 
 
     DEB...isn't it a world of work to get RAVICS configured?  I had to make a
whole legal-pad-sized spreadsheet laying out my codes, menu items, etc. for
every menu in the system...and to get it *just right* it took a few hours of
slave labor.  If the durned system would've stayed up longer than a day it
wouldn't have been bad.  'Course I dislike any board that places as heavy a
use on relative files for everything as RAVICS did...tooo flaky.
     Anyway, I found that users want a couple of things from the BBS:
         1) Uncluttered atmosphere-no 9,000 item menus, two-volume online
messages, etc.
         2) Ease of operation-ability to get from here to there without having
a phD.
         3) A warm presence from the sysop.  Some of the best BBSs are the
ones with a personality...which comes from the sysop (just look at the success
of the *Flagship!* which revolves around DEB's warmth!)
     ...and anything else seems to be icing on the cake!!!!!! (Am I wrong?) -
Gary
 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 9         Sat Aug 09, 1986
JIM.MAC                      (Forwarded) 
 
Gary,

Think you covered the most important thing when you spoke of a warm  presence
from the sysop. If users feel welcome they look at the BBS as their 'place.'

It is true that for some it is an online game that makes it, or perhaps
grahics, while for others it is just exchanging messages. Whatever the case if
there is not an interesting rapport, and a sense of community the BBS  becomes
little more than one more piece of software. -Jim

 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 10        Sat Aug 09, 1986
DEB [*deb!*]                 (Forwarded) 
 
Gary, hon.....RAVICS menus and configs are NOTHING compared to what you have
to setup/manage and keep control over when you cut your teeth on something
like CompuServe...!   Remember all them CBM pages that were non SIGS???  
WEEEEL, each one of them had to be configured, mapped, engineered, blessed and
prayed over, just to get them right.

CompuServe couldn't even tell me how to do most of it...

      **

P.S.  BUT, you're right, compared to other simpler things, a RAVICS
customization and config is a nasty thing to undertake by yourself. Luckily a
standard one comes along in the package.  Someone could  likely make a small
fortune documenting how to use RAVICS....seeing as how there are no docs with
it to speak of....
-----------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 13        Tue Aug 12, 1986
SURVIVOR [S. Gutknecht]      (Forwarded) 
 


Gary, Deb, Jim-

If I ever get it done (yes Jim, BASIC programers even get behind on their
work), ZBBS ][ shold be pretty powerfull on the menu's... But IQ has been
around for 3+ years, and hell, the C128 has been around only 1!

ZBBS ][ will be all "single letter" autotuch commands, so all you have to do
is:

1.    The key to look for.... i.e.  "C" 2.    The command to exicute  i.e. 
goto chat attempt.... "100" 3.    The string to print ... i.e.  "Chat with
DEB!"

How does RAVICS (love that name!) compair?

Stephen Gutknecht

Author of (the running late) C-128 ZBBS I, and almost ][!

 ------------
Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 15        Tue Aug 12, 1986
DEB [*deb!*]                 (Forwarded) 
 
Stephen...Ravics allows you to customize:

   <C>  ==> Single Key command
        ==> Name of menu item, ie:  Chat with *deb!*
 and what routine it calls, and thats about it, so:

  <C> Chat with *deb!*

Is the way the menu would print out.  Then it generates system messages for
'CHAT IS ENGAGED' etc.  <<yawn>>  I think the menu generation that would
include a prompt string when applicable is great!  I've seriously thought
about taking a disk editor to the RAVICS  <<hehehe, don't tell Hayden, tho!>>

I do NOT like the way it forces the format of the menu on me, tho, I love to
be able to choose my key and the menu name, but I'd also like that menu to
look like this:

 <F>eedback          <E>mail
 <C>hat w/ *deb!*    <M>essage boards
   ...etc

rather than what I feel is the redundant way its done now:

 <f> Feedback        <e> Email
 <c> Chat w/ *deb!*  <m> Message Boards

       *deb!*
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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 16        Wed Aug 13, 1986
JIM.MAC                      (Forwarded) 
 
Survivor,

Looking forward to your new release. I know that there are many owners of
C=128sthat I waiting for the features ZBBS has!

One note of correction. Infoquick was released November 1984. That makes it
justshy of two years, not three and a half.  No big deal just keeping the
record straight. -Jim
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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 18        Sun Aug 17, 1986
SURVIVOR [S. Gutknecht]      (Forwarded) 
 
 ZBBS ][.....

It may be greatly delayed... for one reason.. NO MONEY!

I just can not afford to support it on GEnie, and ""Quack-Link""... (mostly
''Quack-Link""... too many ""new computer users"", but they
 are mostly the recievers of PD/SW programs!)

I have talked to some companies... and ZBBS ][ might be going commercial for
$39.99 retail (gary... your price is around $23).... but the problem with that
is it will have to be 100% bug-free... moving the released to Febuary 1,
1987!!!!!

Let me here some comments....

(all people who sent donations will be able to get it for $25, with
  $18 for updates... updates will be every 3 months or so...
  depending on need)

Stephen Gutknecht

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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 19        Tue Aug 19, 1986
RPATTERSON                   (Forwarded) 
 
Well, I too use Ravics and have for some time, my serial# is 163 so that puts
me in pretty early in the game, but I'm tired of a system that won't run
without an eye on it. I love the way you are able to structure it and look at
that as a privelige not a hassle, I've set mine up to be very powerfull yet
user friendly and not cryptic like alot of systems, but you can't leave it
alone for very long so I'm looking ( constantly ) for software that will run
over the weekend while I'm out at the lake. Infoquick, although a good piece
of software is incomplete and has too  many menus to fumble through. If your
looking for a good public domain BBS this might be it, but I would be sorely
dissapointed and mad if I  had spent the $139 on it. It seems that the author
just quit when it came to the download directories, they look good to the
user, but have to be manually maintained and that puts the sysop in a spot if
he, like I tries to keep up with it. I started some 2 1/2 years ago with the
Megasoft BBS and this would have been  incredible piece of software at time
but I think it's a little obsolete now...............Ray

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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 20        Tue Aug 19, 1986
SURVIVOR [S. Gutknecht]      (Forwarded) 
 
 I agree Ray... IQ is ""fast/showy"", but it just seems to jack (lack) some of
the flexibility we have seen... granted that it DOES WORK, but it is a bit too
""IBMy"", meaning that it sure looks profesional, but not personal.

(Jim- my 128 does say "Personal Computer", and also does yours, how
      we will see that in IQ 128)

Stephen Gutknecht

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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 21        Tue Aug 19, 1986
AVANDUYNE                    (Forwarded) 
 
Hello, Jim.  I have had a couple of my users complain that they don't know
what library there are currently in.  Could such a simple thing as a 'Current
library:' message be included at the Files menu?  Other than that, once I got
a fan on the Busscard, power supply, and SFD, things seem to work just fine. 
I would appreciate the Hayes compat. version, as I have one of those, too, and
could switch the 1670 and Hayes around.  Since the Hayes Compat (lynkers) has
it's own power supply, independant of the computer, this might help a little
with my overheat problems....

Call the DINER 1200/300 baud, 24 hours.  315-353-2429!

  ....Andy Van Duyne.... 
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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 23        Wed Aug 20, 1986
JIM.MAC                      (Forwarded) 
 
Ray,

I agree that having to write the descriptions of the files can be a bother at
times. On the other hand though it allows you to provide the information you
feel is best regarding the file. 

Everything has trade offs. As you mentioned you want a BBS to stay up while 
you are at the lake on the weekend. If the crashing board does not require you
 to post the descriptions of files and crashing is less of a pain then you
have found a compromise.  The point I am constantly trying to make is that IQ
is not the ideal BBS for everyone. Suggestions are important, but the only way
to have a BBS that statisfies your wishs totally is to write it yourself. That
is the only true solution.  I personally perfer to be in control of the file
descriptions. I feel it is one small area of the BBS that allows me some
degree of personalization.
                                          -Jim
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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 24        Wed Aug 20, 1986
RPATTERSON                   (Forwarded) 
 
Jim,
   You're right about reliability being more important than having to manually
input a bit of data, but it is a pain. If I knew anything about ml I would
change the prog, but I don't so I wrote a little utility prog to append the
new.files to the appropriate sub library but it adds a line and corrupts, well
not corrupts realy, but the file won't work properly. I've tried about
everything and can't get it to work right, but I'll work on it and as soon as
it is working right I'll upload it.......Ray
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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 25        Thu Aug 21, 1986
DEB [*deb!*]                 (Forwarded) 
 
Ray....you are quite welcome to upload your utility, and one of us will take a
quick peek at it!  An extra line sounds pretty easy to get around, and this
utility sounds WONDERFUL to me!!!

      *deb!*

Pl.S.  I can sit in the same room with our RAVICS BBS working great for 4 or 5
days in a row, but I reboot the thing from scratch, and set it up in working
order and try to leave it for 1 DAY, and the thing dies on me. So help me, it
KNOWS when I'm babysitting and when I'm not!!!
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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 29        Fri Aug 22, 1986
JIM.MAC                      (Forwarded) 
 
Ray,

This utility sounds as Deb says, "WONDERFUL." I am very much looking  forward
to it!

If you continue to experience trouble getting it to run, I will take a  look
at the section of the source code that reads in the sub-libraries and
determine exactly what the delimiter is it requests.

                              Excited -Jim
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Category 9,  Topic 17
Message 30        Sun Aug 24, 1986
DAVE-W                       (Forwarded) 
 
As a Infoquick Sysop I must comment. This BBS so far seems pretty much crash-
proof. I would certainly like to use both sides of my 1571 but have had
problems doing so. In addition,  I would like to see a feature allowing Sub-
boards to be set to read only! Since menus are interruptable I find no
problems w/the currents menu-driven system (well maybe sysop written menus
would be nice). Overall I am pleased w/the operation of this BBS! My
suggestion to those who find fault w/it would be, don't use it. Talk is cheap
but action speaks louder than words. This BBS has unlimited potential on the
128!
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