************ Topic 17 Tue Jun 23, 1987 SPARROW.J at 01:52 EDT Sub: 1750/1700 RAMdisk...finally Okay folks, over the weekend I stormed Commodore headquarters and began taking hostages. It did not take very long until the Commodore hostage negotiation crew offered up the goods...read on. 52 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 1 Tue Jun 23, 1987 SPARROW.J at 02:28 EDT Okay progress has been made... On Friday, as advertised, I stopped by C= and got the grand tour and was filled in on the "big picture". And to paraphrase the semi-human Bowman in the Sci Fi epic movie 2010: "It is all so clear to me now." As my tour guide, our hero, Fred Bowen, guided me through the holy halls of West Chester into the mystical engineering department I began to quake as I realized that the quest for holy RAMdisk software was about to come to an end. As we entered the crowded cubicles where Commie miracles and wonders are born we stopped just outside of the spaces marked Fred Bowen and Hedley Davis. It was there where Fred would pull out from the midst of a tangled array of 1541, 1571, and 1581 disk drives a lone 5.25" diskette. He smiled and handed the disk to me. I looked down at the disk and here is what I saw: C= Commodore Restricted: 1750/1700 RAMDISK (Beta) Copy#: Loren Proprietory information. Do not reproduce without authorization. (C) Commodore Business Machines I looked at Fred and asked as I muttered the words above, "What does this mean?" Fred replied, "Well, it means that although you now have a copy of it, you must not put it up on GEnie until I call you and let you know that it has finally passed QA." I looked back at him and said, "Okay, I will not put it up there until you give me the say so, but how much longer must the faithful wait?" He replied, "I truly expect the final go ahead anyday now, and that is why we are giving you the disk now, so that as soon the word is given you can get it out there." I replied, "I appreciate thatbut what am I going to tell them? I don't want to lie to them, they get lied to enough by PR types, press releases, lawyers and such." He said, "Just tell them exactly what has taken place here, exactly what I have told you, and let's just hope they don't commit suicide in the meantime because the hour is almost at hand." So to recap, I have it now, and as soon as Fred gets the word from the people in QA and those that make sure all this kind of stuff does not violate the 50 million lines of small print that the lawyers have drawn up to insure CBM does end up in court, I will upload it. My impressions of all of this? 1) I appreciate everything that Fred has done for us. The software works great, and he as fought hard to make sure we are going to get it for free (there were those who wanted to charge for i. I think his hard work, and honest are to be commended. 2) It is really too bad, that all of us have had to wait, fight, spend $$$ on long distance phone calls, and ultimately make the pilgrimage to West Chester in order to get something that was completed long ago, and should really have been part of the original 1700/1750 package anyway. --Sparrow James (poised by the phone) ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 3 Thu Jun 25, 1987 SPARROW.J at 01:21 EDT Here is may daily update: I called Fred today, still no word from QA. I have been playing with the thing, and although it is relocatable I have found it to be not very compatible with commercial products. I will continue testing and updating the situation. --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 5 Thu Jun 25, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 20:26 EDT How well does it work with PD or commercial file copiers and disk directory manipulators? How easy is it to retrieve the system links after a warm start? Where does this thing reside (default)? What device numbers can be assigned? Is there any extended commands (as in RAMDOS-128) which allow full disk/full ram backups? Can it be run in either 40 or 80 column modes? ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 6 Thu Jun 25, 1987 SPARROW.J at 22:16 EDT Have not tested all of the above yet Mike, but I will do. From my observations so far it like PD and smaller commerical products that don't do copy protection dances all over the machine. I have to test it with various resets and warm/cold starts. It works with both 40 and 80 column text screens. It does temporarily use part of the hires graphics area for code but swaps back original data when it completes an operation. While doing so, this causes a momentary flash, which may disturb some purists. More details as I get the chance to play with it further... Hopefully I'll get that magic phone call so you guys can help me test it... --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 9 Mon Jun 29, 1987 GARYW at 23:19 CDT Well, have you uploaded it here so that all you have to do is move it? I would hate to find out that Commodore called and said ok, only to find that you can't do an Xmodem upload on your node due to a problem with GEnie.------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 14 Tue Jun 30, 1987 JOEFAUST [Joe F] at 21:11 PDT Sparrow, You don't mention the equally elusive ASSEMBLER package for the 128. Any hope for that? I also appreciate your efforts to obtain the R disk and hope you get the word soon. Joe Faust ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 21 Fri Jul 24, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 19:29 EDT Y'all might want to check out the newest entry into P.D. RamDisk programs now residing in library #9. JBLUE has shared his work with us, and it is file #4525, complete with docs, source code, and assembled programs. Have fun! ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 22 Wed Jul 29, 1987 HARVARD at 21:52 EDT Tried out JBLUE new 1750-RamDisk!!!! Appreciate the effort, but having much trouble getting it to work!! Hangs up on the main disk directory after initially calling it with "F4"! Have left Gmail with him! Anyone working it successfully???? Thanks, Dick Reiling ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 23 Thu Jul 30, 1987 MICHAEL.M [-:SysOp:-] at 04:33 EDT Dick - It worked (though erratically at certain times) for me. Loaded and ran most programs I threw to it. Anyone else with problems? ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 27 Mon Sep 07, 1987 SPARROW.J at 20:41 EDT CBM has recently began answering their mail (I'm in shock) and one of our subscribers sent me a photocopy of a letter that said: "The RAMdisk software for use with the 1700 and 1750 RAM expansion units in C-128 mode is completed, has pasted testing and will be released to various telecommunications networks very soon. In addition, CBM is planning to make a disk full of REU utilities available for a nominal cost." This letter was from Brian Macdonald, at CBM West Chester. Of course, there is no real news here, but it seems that CBM people other than Fred are now admitting that this thing exists and is going to be released, which in a way is positive. I suggest that you dire comments, complaints, etc to Mr. Macdonald. I too am very frustrated with this whole affair..------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 31 Sun Oct 04, 1987 SPARROW.J at 16:00 EDT This is the most frustrating thing: Everyone at Commodore, I mean everyone, even the folks who I can trust, tell me that it should be any day...of course the same people have told me this for the last 8 months. It is real, I have a copy, but I can't release it until they say so, because it is their program. --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 41 Wed Oct 21, 1987 R-SCHREINER at 19:23 PDT Sparrow...... Just a thought....a possibility which has occured to me. I "Wonder" if the delay could be continueing because of "THIRD PARTY" intrests? Such as: You mentioned in July that Progressive Peripherals is selling a RAMDOS 128 for under $40.00. I can easily imagine that the "THIRD PARTY to CBM" relationship must have a certain amount of "We'll make software for your PC's as long as you don't stab us in the back and GIVE away competitive products. I can understand such an act sending a good software company off to support other machines...leaving CBM (and us) far behind. PLEASE PLEASE don't think I'm anywhere near the relm of condoning this delay, my feelings are at the other extreme. I just find it easier to keep from going insane to have at least a posible explaination in mind. fingers thumping Rich Schreiner ------------ Category 14, Topic 17 Message 48 Fri Nov 13, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 18:46 EST Yes kiddies it is here! File #5098. That's right gang 1 year and 9 days after I started my quest for the elusive C- 128 RAMdisk from Commodore it has been uploaded. --Loren ************ Topic 29 Sat Nov 14, 1987 DEB at 02:57 EST Sub: C= RAMDISK/RAMDOS Software Questions OK, share your frustrations, tips, hints and bugs here...! 35 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 1 Fri Nov 13, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] (Forwarded) Yes kiddies it is here! File #5098. , croll, uit ?s That's right gang 1 year and 9 days after I started my quest for the elusive C- 128 RAMdisk from Commodore it has been uploaded. --Loren ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 3 Fri Nov 13, 1987 CARL.H [CHUCK.WAGON] (Forwarded) First Comments: 1. I could not reset the 128 without loosing the contents of the REU. When I tried to get a directory listing of device "9" after reseting I got a Device Not Found - Error!!! I am using a 1.5 year old 128 without New Roms.... Was the REset function Dependent on New ROM's??? 2. I was hoping for something I could Load Applications into and call up as needed, Like loading a WP and Term program for instant access. ie. Word Writer 128 and Bobs Pro Term. You can load these programs into the REU, but running them is another story. This is not a problem with the RAMDOS program, but a limitation of the applications and C= DOS. I'm sure there will still be many usefull applications for this program for those of us who write our own programs and utilize its features but as too compatability with exisisting software I'm just a little disapointed. Guess I'm going to have to wing it with Word Star and Mex.COM on the CP/M Side for a little while longer. >>>> Carl.... = [Carl.H] ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 5 Fri Nov 13, 1987 RICHARDY (Forwarded) so-so well I just tried the C= ramdos and I hope I am doing things wrong but it will jump to the monitor when I try to scratch,copy,run and try to use the header command ( the docs explain that these functions should work) also at times the keyboard will just go to sleep and reset is the only way out< I am not complaining but just reporting so that if a problem it can be fixed> also the boot software will (appers) allow the 1750 to work in 64 mode but in the file the prg. ramdos64 is missing may it be included or will that be another year and a half I am not really upset obut the package but after the wait you would think that the ramdos would work better than it is. I have the new version roms in my 128 if anyone with the old roms do not have this problem let me know and I will try them( old roms) thank you Richard Y. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 6 Sat Nov 14, 1987 L.SEMEL1 [PixLMaster] at 13:43 EST I tried to use Ultraterm 2.01 with it, but it didn't work. Also, I have a question: can I use it without allocating the graphics screen as long as I don't load in basic programs? That way I could get 9216 more bytes for my looooongg programs. It should theoretically restore whatever BASIC I have there after a transfer. I am going to try to BLITZ some programs on the RAM expander today. I hope it is faster! ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 7 Sat Nov 14, 1987 RICHARDL at 12:46 MST Another thing that will bring a monitor break is trying to print ds. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 8 Sat Nov 14, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 18:44 EST Okay, Fred and I found our first little bug... The bug has to do with use of some BASIC 7.0 DOS commands, especially DCLOSE... Here is the patch, (I have also uploaded this to the software library so you don't have type it in). 10 BLOAD"RAMDOS128.BIN4.2" 11 DATA B0,03,4C,E2,30,A5,B9,29,0F,D0,F5,60 12 FOR I= 15248 TO 15249 13 READ X$ 14 POKE I,DEC(X$) 15 NEXT I 16 POKE 9359,51 17 POKE 13599,51 18 BSAVE"RAMDOS128.BIN4.3",B0,P8960 TO P16128 19 : 20 REM PATCH TO FIX DCLOSE BUG IN C-128 RAMDOS RELEASE 4.2 21 REM THIS PROGRAM FIXES THE 4.2 BINARY FILE AND SAVES 22 REM THE FIXED BINARY FILE AS VERSION 4.3 23 REM LINES 160 & 170 UPDATE THE VERSION NUMBER TO 24 REM 4.3 INTERNALLY. 25 REM CHANGE LINE 126 IN RAMDOS.BAS SO THAT 26 REM DEFINED AS FOLLOWS: F$="RAMDOS128.BIN4.3" 27 REM AND RESAVE RAMDOS.BAS - THANKS! 28 REM FRED BOWEN & LOREN LOVHAUG 10/14/87 I believe this should take care of the print DS problem mentioned earlier as well. As for losing the RAMdisk after reset, you must re-run the RAMDOS.BAS file after a reset, but answer no instead of yes after the installation prompt. I am sorry if that was not clear in the doc file. Let me know if you find any other problems, Fred and I are determined to make you happy. --Loren ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 9 Sat Nov 14, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 20:54 EST Line 12 should read: FOR I = 15248 to 15259 I have already fixed this in the software library. But I noticed that five people have already downloaded the fix in the hour and 23 minutes that have passed since I released the file. I am truly sorry gang. Just change your line 12 accordingly. Deb, before you yell at me...I did test the download before I released it, but it everything looked peachy as I tested it. One frustrated bird... --Sparrow James Again, I beg forgiveness ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 10 Sun Nov 15, 1987 RICHARDL at 10:43 MST Is the fix for the new roms or what is is t supposed to fix? It creates a problem with closing a file on a sequential read now with the new fix, as opposed to closing the file on a seq file r write. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 12 Mon Nov 16, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 01:30 EST Grrrrrr... I am beginning regret my involvement in this...I'll talk to Fred on Monday. I don't think old vs new ROMs are the source of the problems methinks there is something else in play here. But I will continue to pursue this thing till we get it right. Maybe buliding furniture would not be such a bad life after all... --Loren ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 13 Mon Nov 16, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 19:21 EST Okay we found the problem..(again) It seems that somewhere between Minneapolis and West Chester Fred and I misplaced two bytes in the version 4.3 patch program. Here is what the thing should look like: 10 BLOAD "RAMDOS128.BIN4.2",B15 11 DATA B0,03,4C,E2,30,A5,B9,29,0F,C9,0F,D0,F5,60 12 FORI=15248 TO 15261 13 READ X$ 14 POKE I,DEC(X$) 15 NEXT I 16 POKE 9359,51 17 POKE 13599,51 18 BSAVE "RAMDOS128.BIN4.3",B0,P8960 TO P16128 The changes are in lines 10, 11, and 12. By missing the two bytes added in the above corrected version we lost a CMP that affected a relative branch in the DOS channel routine. (nasty) If you are confused by all of this, I will be uploading the corrected binary file later this evening but I just thought I would post this now so that those of you who downloaded the patch program could effect the changes yourself without downloading the files again. For our mistakes we are truly sorry. And as always, if problems persist, let us know. --Loren (the incompetent) ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 14 Mon Nov 16, 1987 RICHARDL at 19:54 MST Is there any way to get around the #70 NO CHANNEL 00,179 error after closing a sequential file using the ram disk. The fixed file stopped the lockup during a save to the ram disk, but the file disappears and not listed in the directory and the save seems slower than a save to a 2nd side of a 71 disk. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 15 Tue Nov 17, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 19:32 EST The latest fix (version 4.3a) the one I posted yesterday does not do for me what you are describing. Could you tell me a little bit more about your program. Since yesterday I have not experienced any difficulties with RAMDOS whatsoever.. --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 16 Tue Nov 17, 1987 RICHARDL at 18:10 MST Using the football prediction program, changing the ramdisk to unit 8 after everything is coppied into the ram disk with the open15.....then run the program it then loads fine, but it uses a dopen#5 and then dumps all the variables to the disk, then a dclose. It has a ds check at the end that I had to modify for it from the original program but it says 70 No Channel. Maybe a dopen#1 will clear it up. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 17 Thu Nov 19, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 01:40 EST That is a strange one...I'll run it by Fred next time I talk to him about that. On the ds check, does the data actually get saved? What I am getting at is this: perhaps the error message left in RAMDOS's error channel buffer is just an anomolous shadow, with no valid meaning. Try ripping the ds check out and seeing if the data is actually okay. My bet is that it is. Still we do want to get this thing performing as close to a disk drive as possible so we still will probably look into it, but in the meantime if the data is okay then at least you know you can continue using it with your program and then we know we don't have any more "serious" problems. In my experience, version 4.3a is bulletproof, but perhaps you have come up with something. --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 18 Thu Nov 19, 1987 RICHARDL at 18:27 MST The data is not saved, nor is there a splat file that shows up on the directory. It's supposed to be saved as tstat, it checks ds, then saves tsched, checks ds, then if ok it will scratch the statistics file and the schedule file, and renames the tstat to statistics and tsched to schedule, figgured since it would be run only in the winter and the power here in Colorado that it would be better to do it that way to save as much data as possible in the event of a power failure. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 19 Thu Nov 19, 1987 RICHARDL at 18:56 MST Should add that ds is not checked until after the file is closed. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 20 Thu Nov 19, 1987 RICHARDL at 22:08 MST Tried dloading the new 4.3 entire library file and same results, also tried changing it to the slow mode with no success. Here is the exact file that it is trying to write: 2810 dopen#5,"tstat,s",w 2820 fort=1to28:forw=0to20 2830 print#5,vo(t,w);c$;vd(t,w);c$;ho(t,w);c$;hd(t,w);c$;tp%(t,w);c$:next:next:dclos e#5:rem c$=chr$(13) 2840ifds<>0then goto2960:rem warning program aborting without saving files 2850 print"disk status";ds$ then there is a similar one for the tsched file that has the same results as far as getting a 70 no channel error. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 21 Fri Nov 20, 1987 RICHARDL at 18:07 MST The problem is in using the dopen command. If you leave out the filetype then the default will work, but if you declare it as a seq file then the no channel problem occurs. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 22 Sat Nov 21, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 02:14 EST I confirmed today after running many tests with Fred Bowen that indeed you cannot use the filetype inside of the filename string with the BASIC 7.0 DOPEN command. There are some very funky reasons why this is and if he can fix it without doing a major rewrite, he said he would. He is also considering adding ability to partition the RAMdisk so that programs like BASIC 8 could live with it. For now if you wish to open a sequential file with the RAMdisk simply use this syntax: DOPEN#1,"filename",W since the default filetype is sequential. If you want to create another filetype use the BASIC 2.0 equivalent: OPEN 1,8,2,"filename,p,w" I hope this helps. Like I said, Fred is now aware of this quirk and is thinking about a strategy for correcting it. Gee, this is fun... (not really, but at least now we are getting down to psuedo-picky things) --Sparrow James ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 23 Sun Nov 22, 1987 RICHARDL at 01:24 MST Figgured that would be the temporary fix since about the only 7.0 command in the filecopy program is a bank and bload command. So now that it's up and running for the most part, now to get it to work with stuff like Bob's and other goodies to run with it. As a word of warning, do not over fill the ram disk and expect to get anything back out of it, I did it for grins (good thing I was planning on doing it just to see what happens) and poof it's a lock-up and you can't get to it by re-running the ramdos128.bas and not initializing the ram disk, locks up still, tried again and it did access it but was messed up. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 26 Fri Nov 27, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 04:25 EST The directory is in the RAM expansion, as is a psuedo BAM. All the interface code does is tell the 128 how and where to swap in the code from the RAM expansion that really does the work. After the work is done the code goes back to hiding in the expander. When the rest key is pressed the code for actually grapping the work code from the expander gets mashed, and by running RAMDOS.BAS you can get it back without having to reload the entire BINary file that actually controls the works. When that interface code is re-loaded (I think it is only about 200 bytes) then you can access the work code which can get at the directory and the files already there. If you disassemble and study Fred and Hedley's code you will see some nifty stuff... it is just too bad they could not have put the interface code in ROM, but at the time when they were finishing up work on the 128 the actual configuration of the REU was still only on paper and they only had specs to work with. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 27 Fri Nov 27, 1987 RICHARDL at 15:48 MST I've had BT and the expansion for over a year and not experienced any lockup on BT because of the 1750. The printer locking up the serial buss is the only trouble I've had if the printer was powered off and the 1670 refuses to call out. I don't have the rom upgrades so those could be causing the trouble with the expansion. ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 28 Sat Nov 28, 1987 SPARROW.J [Fred] at 08:51 EST No No No No No..... NO The ROM upgrades *do not* effect the operation of BT PRO with or without a RAM Expander in place. Like Richard, my BT PRO does not have any problems with the REU connected. People... When we experience problems lets be responsible and not automatically assume it has something to do with the ROM upgrades. The reality is that is very rarely the cause. By suggesting that the ROMs are the problem, you only spread unfounded rumor about one of the nicest things that Commodore has done for the 128 and 1571. Look, it was true that early on people experienced difficulties with Big Blue Reader CP/M and Fast Hackem, but now both have been fixed. Let's be careful out there... ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 31 Thu Mar 10, 1988 R-SCHREINER at 22:24 PST Well, I was wrong. I want to admit it. Regarding an earlier message which I had left in this topic which depicted trouble in relationship between Bob'sterm Pro 128 and the 1750 Ram Expansion Unit, = there is "no" trouble between the two. Since having had read the responces to my message I have since run Bob'sterm for 3 months now with absolutly no problem. I don't know what the locking up problem was before but it was not because of Bob'sterm. I'm really sorry if this has caused anyone confusion. I was also wrong regarding the directory of the ramdisk. I have deleted my message so that it can't cause any more confusion about these areas. Again I'm really sorry. Rich Schreiner ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 32 Sat Mar 12, 1988 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] at 00:37 PST Tell how you got it to work. What files go where? It might save us some time when we get around to trying BTPro with our 1750. Thanks, Courtney ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 33 Mon Mar 14, 1988 R-SCHREINER at 01:21 PST Courtney, I'm sorry if I misslead you to think I was able to get BTP to utilize the 1750. I had experienced some locking up problems a few months back. At the time I thought it was because of running BTP while the expansion was plugged in. After reading some responses which disputed incompatability I again started leaving it plugged in while running BTP. I've been doing it now for 3 months and no more locking up. I haven't had BTP utilize the expansion. Some where in a message here in the BBS I read that the problem was that BTP was so large of a program that it over writes the 2 bytes which access the expansion, and so erases the hope of accessing it. But I can sure understand your intrest, if we ever could come up with a way for BTP to utilize the REU it would be fantastic! By the way Courtney, thanks again for telling me about BTP, I'd hate to think what telecomunicating would be like with out it. C===1==2==8===>>> Rich ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 34 Wed Mar 16, 1988 CHARRINGTON [Courtney] at 07:40 PST You're welcome, and thanks for clarifying the use of BTPro with the 1750/51. ...sounded too good to be true. Courtney ------------ Category 14, Topic 29 Message 35 Fri May 06, 1988 D.HYTE at 20:45 EDT On the lighter side - a fellow 128 user here in good ol NC asked me recently if there were (are?) any ramdisk utils for the bare 128. That is, those without one of the reu's that will utilize some of the free ram in bank 0 or 1. Naturally this would obviously have a detremental effect on some programs or the ramdisk itself if the top of basic pointers weren't set and all that gud stuff eh. I've scanned (keyword search) the lib and nada. Lots of reu's for downloading but nuthin for a quintessential 128 eh. Anyway, any points in the right direction appreciated. Read back through some of the stuff on BTPRO128 and using the 17xx reu's and I've too have been running it w/my 1750 for almost a year now and no probs. I have a ramdisk util or two (or 7) and so far have found the series done by ol Chris Smeets of ARC fame (his 128 version called CS-DOS) to be as close to MS-DOS as anything I have run for the ol toy C= here. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!! I think tho (feel) the Bob (of BTPRO128) has just abandoned us for bigger and better things from what I've seen in here about there not being anymore incarnations of the term above v 2.3 which is a shame as use of the 1750 is really all that it lacks (plus a small wish list I have) but that's another story. . Dave (.)(.) ------------ ************