1994 by GEnie ========================================================================== This file is brought to you by The Commodore 64/128 RoundTable on GEnie This file may be published or excerpted in User Group newsletters providing credit is given in this manner: "Copyright 1994 by GEnie From the Commodore 64/128 RoundTable File#:#####" This file maybe be distributed, if distributed whole and unaltered, on , croll, uit ? non-profit BBSs or non-profit networks. For more information on GEnie call by modem: 1-800-638-8369 (8-N-1 300/1200/2400) Enter: HHH Then reply: xtx99018,commrt Then enter: Commodore And enjoy! ========================================================================== On January 10th, the Commodore RT had guest speakers, Gaelyne Moranec, and Tim Phelps in to talk about the two Off Line Readers for the Commodore: QWKie for the C64 and QWKRR for the C128. This transcript is for anyone that is about to use, has used, or wants to use OLRs. The conference was packed with information, and thoughtful questions and answers. Gaelyne showed why she is a successful columnist in the Commodore World magazine and BBS magazine with her though answers and explainations. Tim Phelps demonstrated a thorough grasp of QWKie with his answers concerning the C64 verson of the Off Line Reader. The conference was co hosted by Greg Noggle, a BBS owner, and a man that has been in the field of telecommunications for many years. His questions provided a lot of insight into OLR use. GEOS-TIM (Tim Hewelt) offered the view point in his questions of a user that had not had the pleasure of using an Off Line Reader. The transcripts that you are about to read, of course, made all the participants look good with the editing wizardry of Cam Stewart (The.Outlaw). Sherry Freedline (C128-QT.Pie) handled the behind the scenes dutys of informing the audience of any information they might need as they attended the conference. Both Cam and Sherry helped with question construction. ============================================================================== SHOWTIME!!! Welcome to the QWKRR and QWKie Conference....with special guests - Gaelyne Moranec and Tim Phelps. With co-hosts Greg Noggle and GEOS- TIM (Tim Hewelt) Gaelyne is a published columnist with BBS magazine and Commodore World. Tim Phelps uses QWKie extensively with FIDO , Rime and ITC They will be telliing us about QWKie and QWKRR tonight. Greg Noggle my co host runs his own BBS and is very knowledgeable in this area also. I am a raw novice in the area of Off line readers. So I am planning on learning a lot tonight Welcome! Thanks, Tim. Hello. I've been using QWKie regulary since it came out (early 1993) and have been using it to read such BBS networks as Fido and Rime. I'm also a registered user of QWKie. I've been using some form of offline mail reading since 1992, first with GEOS, (a real interesting process) and then with QWKRR128. I'm a registered use of QWKRR and in daily contact with it's author, Rod Gasson, who lives in Australia. I spend a lot of time with this program. That is important. Not enough people register their software. Well what is FIDO, Galyne? Fidonet is a network of amatuer BBS sysops. There are thousands of conferences, each with different subjects. To save on phone costs, messages are forwarded to HUB BBS's and then sent on to other BBS systems. What subjects are available that would be of interest of a C= user? There are about 4 or 5 of them actually.... CBM, which is for all 8bit Commodore computers, CBM-128 for C128 users (and 64mode is ok too) CBM-GEOS for GEOS folks, PCWrite, which is for the discussin of emulators and crossplatform computing. And of course there is a CP/M echo and SCIFOR, which is about the Vortexnet BBS program. Is this a pay service? No, it's not. (Pay as in GEnie, that is.) It depends. Some BBS systems charge for your time online, some don't. Some BBS's are subscription -- you pay by the year, and get additional services, such as the ability to use the offline mail doors and such. Some are free, some are subscription. Depends on the BBS Sysop, really. How big is the Fido network,does cover cities,states,countries? It is literally International. All countries with the technology for phone services can be a part of Fidonet. QT has a question What are offline mail doors? Good one, QT! :) They are where you download the messages from a BBS so you can read them offline. QWK, Bluewave and Silver Express (I think). But we Commodore users can only use the QWK mail door for the moment. Right, Tim. ah, I see, thanks, Tim & Gaelyne! Tim what is RIME and ITC? Rime and ITC are just like Fido but smaller. Rime is also known as RelayNet. Right, Gaelyne. That gave us a good feel for BBSs. Now we will go into a little background on how and when OLRs came on the scene. I guess that brings up a logical question: How long have they been around? Good question. :) QWKRR came about in June of 1992. At that time it was in Basic and you could only READ the messages, not respond to them. The first version of QWKie was put out in November 1992. OH.... Before I continue, I should mention that CRR is an Offlinemail reader for CP/M mode. It was available prior to either of the 64 or 128 offline readers. OLR,why is that important to me? Is this important for everyone or just C= users? Well, for the C64/128 user, the online time on a BBS decreased which was a handicap for those who want to at least scan through all of the messages. That brings up another...what I would view as an important question: What was life like before the Off Line Reader? Before offline mail reading, I spent a great deal of time online the bulletin board, reading and answering mail. I had a lot of complaints that no one could reach me because the phone line was busy. I also probably answered more mail than needed because I couldn't read the mail first, then go back to answer it later. I tried buffering the mail but it wasn't very easy or satisfying. Answering the mail was difficult to do using ASCII buffer sends from the term programs. Sounds like it is an important addition to the telecommunications world! I think so. :) Yep. :) That puts us to the question of how to use them when collecting messages. What reuqirements does the BBS have to have to enable the user to use OLRs? First you have to see if your BBS has a "QWK" mail door. First, you will need to find a BBS that allows QWK mail doors, then you will need to find out what kind of compression it uses to compress the messages with. Commodore users have some specific needs in this area. From there, you should see if the mail door supports the ARC/PAK or PKZip 1.01 compression. That's right, Tim. Also 128 users can use LHA -1 formats, too. Many times you can ask your BBS sysop to include PKZip 1.x as a compression method, if it isn't available. Most sysops don't mind helping their users in this way. Can a single drive user use offline readers Yep. Yes, but it does involve planning... ie, you will have to limit the amount of mail you receive at one time so both the OLR and mail packets can fit on the same disk. I should add to that. It will depend on the type of drive you have. For example for a mail packet compressed with PKzip should be about 48k to fit on a 1541 (For Arc compressed, about 53k.) Gaelyne,could you give us an idea of the steps when collecting messages? Usually the mail door has a configurations menu. In this menu, you select the way you want your mail sent to you. Some of the options are: compression (as mentioned), which protocol to download with, and what conferences you which to receive in you mail packet. There are some rather important OTHER options. One is whether or not to include every conference name in the Control.dat file or not. (Answer NO). Another is if you want other .txt files in your packet, such as Bulletins and News files. This is up to you and the amount of disk drive space you have. Some, but not all mail doors have a means of allowing you to limit the number of messages per packet, and per conference. This is helpful for single '41 disk drive users. One of the other options is whether to include ".NDX" files or not. QWKIE users NEED these files. QWKRR users don't. Tim,are the procedures similar with the C64 version of the Off Line Reader QWKie? They're similar. But I do have to make a modification. It doesn't really matter if you have a "large" (with all conferences) or "small" (selected conferences) control.dat file. It depends on you. On QWKie it preferable to use the small version (if available) because it's easier to select a conference to enter a new message (you have to go down lists of conference names just to get to the conference you want). Also, you can read the "external" files (new file listings, bulletins, news, etc.,) with the Import option of QWKie. About the Control.dat file, QWKRR has an upper limit on this, Tim, as this affects the memory available for answering mail. Oh. I did not know that. Once you have dowload the packet,what do you do it with it,you have file on your disk namesomething.ex, where do you go from there? Okay, moving on to the next logical step....Reading the messages you download. Could you give us the procedure for reading messages after logging off the BBS? Well, first you have to dissolve the packet. With QWKie, if the packet was compressed with ARC/PAK, you use CSX. If compressed with PKZip, use Unzip64 (but you may need the "fix" for this). What "fix", Tim? Well, when Unzip64 has a tough time reading mail packets. So the author of the program, Bill Lucier, issued a fix to cure this problem. Is it a PD fix, that is available in most BBS libraries? Well, it's any easy fix. It's just a bunch of poke statements that you just put into Unzip64. BTW, I should mention this is in reference to Unzip v.101. I don't think so, Tim. Unfortunately, he just offered the poke statements over Fido but that's all. oic Oh, one last note about using Unzip64 with your mail packet: Be sure to name the file the the .zip extention or the program won't reconize it.(Also, just to clarify, the first Unzip64 isn't useful to OLR users.) Now the packet this is file on a your drive correct. Do you have to make sure the the file name is something specifc? QWKRR users can use a program called QPX which can be found in QWKRRUT.SFX. or can use QPE, which can be found in NZP12813.SFX. If using ARC/PAK, the user also needs to find CSX01.SDA. These programs make dissolving the mail packets easier for the end user by asking all the questions and then running. They ask the archive name, the disk drives, and a few other questions. Okay, you have dissolved the messages, what are the procedures a user would go through to read and respond to messages? Gaelyne ? With QWKRR, it depends on the program used to dissovle the mail and the options you've chosen. For FIRST time users, it will ask where the mail can be found (what disk drives or CMD directories), where the replies should be stored, where the taglines are, and where "user" files should be stored. Then it asks for the time and date, and for non-registered users, it has a few screens reminding you that it is shareware and that all functions will not work until registered. Once that is through, you may either ndex the mail, (this can be set automatically useing QPX or QPE, too). From that point (indexing is NOT necessary, BTW), you can read the mail in anyway you desire. IE, read only mail to/from you, or read only mail from TWITS (VIPs), etc. Greg just asked about Unzip 128.. unzip 128 has another program to run called QPE that looks for QWK mail... you tell it the name of the file... ie, BBSNAME.QWK or BBSNAME.ZIP and it will find it and dissolve it. QPE can be saved so you don't have to type in that info each time, too. Ah,I just changed the name of the file to auroura.qwk in my case, But it was a nussiance till I figured that out,didn't know about QPE doing that specifically. QWKie works a little differently. Once you load the program you are given the options to read messages, enter messages, set the drives for the mail packet and taglines, and select if you want the taglines be selected manually, randomly or numerically and edit the taglines. By the way, taglines and the index mode (to be mentioned later) are only supported in the registered version. QWKRR is the same in regards to taglines. When QWKie spots a new mail packets, it scans the packet to gather information such as confernces, number of messages, the date of the mail packet. After that it presents you the list of conferences for you to read. You can read them by scanning the headers, listing the headers (index) or reading the full message one by one. Interesting....I can see it is indispensible for the BBS user..... QWKRR also will list the headers of mail, and let you read from that point, but QWKie is a little different. It lets you Mark the messages of interest from the Index mode and then read these. QWKRR lets you list the headers and select and individual message to jump right to. Oh, QWKie does let you mark message but only in Index mode (and only for that conference). :-) I learned something. QWKRR shows all conferences, if you are set to All conferences otherwise displays only mail from the selected Area. Thanks, Tim! QWKie only shows the selected conferences there's mail in. Same with QWKRR... if there's no mail in a conference, you won't see it in the list. Gaelyne you mention Twit filter earlier what's that? Ah, the misnamed TWIT filter. :-) (By the way, QWKie 3.1 doesn't have the twit filter. Maybe in 4.0). Rod has a warped sense of humor. The Twit filter allows you to either Read mail from a list of 10 Twit names, or you can Ignore mail to or from the people listed. Most QWKRR users seem to use this instead of as a true TWIT filter, as a VIP filter... ie, I have Rod Gasson and the CBM echo moderator TWITed, so I can rowse for the TWITS and read mail from or to them. Latest version of QWKRR is 4.30, BTW. Is that an example or do you really twit the moderator? :) Don't you dare twit the moderator . I Twit the moderator so I CAN read mail frm him. This is where (or what) I meant by Rod having a warped sense of humor. Gives him great pleasure to "Twit" the moderator. ;-) Oh, I didn't know when you twit, you can also read the mail from the person. It's kinda like a search function. In fact, when you browse Headers or read the mail, the names which are in your Twit filter are highlighted a different color, and a small bell dings. I never use the Twit filter as a true filter... I use it as a VIP search. VIP = Very Important People Okay, you've read the message. How do you respond to the messages? Does the program place them in the correct areas when you log on to the BBS? In a nutshell, procedures for reponding. What does the user have to do to insure that a message get to the correct area? Wanna take this, Tim? OK. :) When you respond to a message with QWKie, you are asked to change the "to:" and "subject:" fields and if this is to be a private or a public message. You type your reply, using the quote function (it will ask you if you want to insert parts of the message you're replying to to your message) when necessary. In other words, quote. When done, you will then use the save functin and at that time (using the registered version, it will ask you for a tagline to save to the message) and then QWKie will save that message to as a .msg file. When you're done reading message for that mail packet, you go back to the QWKie main menu to the ".zip" messages function where QWKie will zip the message for you to upload. When you sign onto your BBS and select the mail door, you'll see a functin that says "Upload .rep packet" and upload your reply packet (when QWKie .zip the packet, it "changed" it to .rep). Gaelyne, is the QWKRR similar in it's response functions? Does the program put the message in the right areas on the BBS? Or does the user have to do something special? QWKRR functions a little differently when replying to mail. It will ask who you are sending a message to (defaulting to the name in the last read message), and the subject, but if you wish to quote, you use C= or CTRL Q, and scroll through the last read message to select portions of text to quote. When done, you save the message. For sake of making it easy here, if you are only sending one reply, you could then select to edit your reply (Registered version only), or to archive it to send back. QWKRR can do this in 3 ways: 1) Link messages. This creates a file called BBSNAME.MSG that you can then load another program like CS-DOS and archive it. You have to name the archived file with a .REP extention. IE, BBSNAME.REP. 2) ARC ... This will archive the mail in a stored PKarc format. 3) ZIP... same as above but in PKZip (stored) format. These last two are the easiest options. They do NOT compress the replies, but add header information and then rename the file to BBSNAME.REP Then, like QWKie, you load your term program and go to the same mail door and upload the REP packet. The mail door then acts like a post office and "tosses" the mail into the different conference areas where it belongs. Greg? Any questions? Can I use any text editor to do my replying (By the way, I'm not sure the option for packing replies on the Greg? Any questions? Can I use any text editor to do my replying (By the way, I'm not sure the option for packing replies on the QWKie menu is .zip replies but it's something like packing replies.) Greg, both QWKie and QWKRR have their own inbuilt editors for replying, BUT, QWKRR allows you to iport text into your messages. Tim, does QWKie have this, too? As mentioned earlier, yes. Thanks! That'll teach me to go grab a coke. ;-) LOL :) Can the process of reading and replying be automated to some degree,if so and what utilities are necassary, Gaelyne? OH.... Lets see if I'm following you.... do you mean can the process of picking up mail from the BBS and then dissolving it be automated? (The computer can't read the mail for you) Nuts! I thought the Commie could do everything. You can use scripts to download your mail packet and upload your reply packet. And the computer can't write replies either. :) Grin! True,but where does EZ-loader play a role for instance? Yes, Greg. EZLoader was written by David Schmoll and it is a menu program which allows you to set the time (or use a CMD device RTC), you can have it set to load/run programs for you at specific times. He wrote this with offline mail reading in mind... He has a script program for his term program and has EZ Loader run this at a specific time... it calls the BBS and downloads his mail for him. Then set at a later time, EZLoader automatically loads and runs QPE to dissolve his mail packet. When he gets up in the morning his mail packet is ready to be read. (BTW, both EZLoader and QWKRR have screen savers so burn in is not a problem). But he still has to read and reply to the mail on his own. :D (I use scripts to download my mail packet and upload my replies.) EZLoader is on GEnie, and if not, it will be!!!! :-) Cam was saying that EZ loader is in the libs here. ezldr2-8.sfx file # 15937 . You mentioned earlier Netmail,what is this? Here goes.. Netmail is something indicitive to Fidonet. It is "private" mail sent either directly from one BBS to another (Crashmail) or bounced from one BBS to another until it gets to its destination (Routed). It is not really private in that any BBS Sysop can read it if they want, but there are rules which govern that. Routed mail is often referred to by Rod Gasson as Rooted because it doesn't always get where its intended to go, it just vanishes (not always but it does happen). Some BBS sysops allow their users to have access to Netmail for reading ONLY, and some allow reading and sending of Netmail. Because Crashmail often involves a long distance call, Routed is usually what users are allowed to use, if given access. QWKRR has some automated Netmail featues not found on other OLRs on other platforms. The user has to first determine the type of BBS/Mail door he or she are using, and then select this format in QWKRR, (it is saved as a default for future use), and also has to tell QWKRR which conference area Netmail should be placed in. It also has a phone book allowing up to 26 different addresses to be stored. (Netmail requires a Fidonet address so the BBS knows where to send the mail). This is one of QWKRR's most powerful features, IMHO. These Netmail features are not available in QWKie. You would have to type the addresses manually. The process seems pretty easy. What kinds of typical problems can the user expect when using an OLR, specifically QWkie and QWKRR? Let's start with you, Tim. Well, you may get a packet that was downloaded as a bad one, making it unreadable. The download could be bad because of transmission problems or you've run out on room on your disk. But to cure this, you can go dissolve the .ptr file which you can upload to the BBS and have your message pointers reset. (assuming there's nothing wrong up to the .ptr file.) :) The first and most major hurdle is getting a mail packet. Often new users will d/l the offline mail readers and try to run it without reading the docs, or getting a mail packet. Many often "assume" the OLR should dissolve the mail. This happens and is the #1 asked question even for other platforms. Getting the concept across that the unpackers are separate from the offline mail readers is one of the major hurdles. Yeah when you don't read the docs for QWKRR watch out for the screen saver,my monitor wasn't broke after all Good point. I always forget I'm one of the few who read the docs. :) LOL! There is a nice way for new QWKRR users to both learn and read the docs at the same time. I put the docs in QWK format the file name is QWKRR43T.ZIP (T for Tutorial), and it's available on GEnie too. You will still need NZP12813.SFX to unzip both the original file and the QWK packet within. It has had problems though, Unzip128 needs to be set to unzip the files as SEQ files so you can read the two included text files which tell you what to do. Some have had problems with this... for whatever reason sometimes these TXT files dissolve strange and are unreadable. :-( What has worked for some is trying it again (dissolving) onto another disk or disk drive. We haven't figured out why some have problems and some don't, though. Very frustrating. qwkrr43t.zip file # 16759 nzp12813.sfx file # 15112 Thanks, Cam! Oh... QWKie users can't read this mail packet... Since QWKRR doesn't use or need .NDX files, (and I didn't know how to make them), they are not in this packet. Unzip128 may need a fix like Unzip64 has. Thanks Tim..... bring that up in the echo, please! OK, if I remember. :) Well, we covered a lot of areas tonight. Could you two go over the similarities and differences between 64's QWKie and the 128's QWKRR programs? Lets start with similarities. Yea, they both let you read mail... :D That's a tough one for me to answer because I'm not very familiar with QWKRR. But one thing I've heard is that on QWKRR, you enter the number of the conferenc you want to post a message to but with QWKie you are given with a list of conferences to enter. That depends, Tim. If you are just entering a message w/o reading any, you are asked. But if you are reading in a conference, and reply, it will save it in that conference, or you can forward your reply to another conference. I meant entering a new message. Major differences? I just got a question asked about registration..... go ahead... Rod says Arthur Moore's program is written better and tighter than QWKRR, which is quite a compliment. QWKie's Index mode is a very big plus. (Arthur Moore is the author of QWKie.) Ah, the C64 comes through again!!! LOL :) LOL! Both are EXCELLENT programs. QWKRR also has macros. And an intro... IE, you can have it set with a greeting of your design instead of just "Hi". The macros make typing for me a lot easier. Just a couple keystrokes and an entire word appears. You can, infact, have a single macro that is up to 8K in size. If the moderator wants to put the entire rules message into a single macro, he can. This also works nice for graphics (like schematics) or for sending Internet mail. I think just about what you find in QWKie you can find in QWKRR. The only macro QWKie gives is: On xxx, xxxx said to xxx:. Dan Thomas has a question. Go ahead Dan Yes Dan? Can QWKRR be used with more that one BBS. I read something about your name being set in the regitered verison. Yes, and even Registered versions. Let me explain. Say on one BBS you are Dan and on another your user name is Danny. QWKRR looks at the name in the control.dat file from the mail packet to see if you are registered. Rod will send you the correct codes for as many different BBS names as you have (within reason). Or, in the same example.... hmm, I lost myself, sorry. You can use Alias's also when you register. IE, if your name in the control.dat is DAN, and the BBS allows you to have an alias of Danny, when you reply you can do so with a SHIFT R for reply, and type in the name of your Alias in the From field. This is for registered users, only. Does this help? Yes, what if my mail packet comes in an alias? When you register, list the Alias' you need the registration codes for on the registration form, and they will be sent to you. You can have/use different registered versions of QWKRR, too. I have about 3 or 4 I think. (No extra cost) Good I will regist my copy It is up to you to run the registration program and add the codes. GREAT. ;-) By the way, the same holds true for QWKie (as far as using different BBSs and handles) but Arthur does it differently. He writes into your registered copy of QWKie with your submitted list of handles that you'll be using. Can you keep a vergin copy and request codes as needed? Yes, but since Rod lives in Australia it is good to list the ones you need when you register. But if your needs change you can request new ones. Do NOT, however try it with very different names. IE, Bob Smith and Jerry Hall or something like that. But Husband/Wife's can register once and each receive the codes they need. thank you, I am through. It might be best to use the same handle or name on all boards you call.... That is what I do, Dan. most fido boards ask for real names anyway I thought Yes they do, Greg. Thanks Dan, good questions Gaelyne, does QWKRR support unlimted number of taglines? Yes. and No. Tagline files have 10 tags in each file. You can name them with ".XX" extension (s) so that you can simply hit N or P to load the next or previous tagline file. So you can have up to 99 tagline files with 10 tags per tagline filename. Can these OLR be used with InterNet??? That's easy. With QWKie, you have to remember the name of the tagline file to load (althoug it ends with tag). end Sure, Dan. Yes, you can, Dan. Er, that is you can read the Usenet newsgroups. You can also send E-Mail through the Internet, too. Providing the BBS has an E-Mail conference, of course. You type: To: gaelyne.moranec@wolverine.com (example) on the first line of the message, then start the message. Works great. Thanks, I am trying to understand the InterNet...bought magaznines and read messages here trying to get some understanding maybe just using it will help. The Jan issue of BBS Magazine has a nice article about it for C= users. By the way, the Internet RT is a valuable resource for the Internet. And there will be expanded internet access in the future on GEnie what access do we have here now???? Email and FTP. Cam, our Inet expert can answer that. Cam? Currently on GEnie all we have is available through Email. I do know the the testing for the Gopher access is about finished and will/should be ready for general use in Feb. You can do a lot with E-Mail, though... You can read news letters. Is there more access? As for the rest, later on in the spring time. No definate dates as yet. There will be more Access coming Dan Phase I will consist of: FTP, IRC, Gopher, there are a few other items, I can't remember them. That will be this year. That is real FTP. (The FTP we have now is like mail FTP.) Doctor has a question I have a question reguarding the qwk reader program, if I may. go ahead.. Which one, Doc? Which ones are currently under discussion? QWKie for the 64 and QWKRR for the 128. QWKRR128 v4.30 for the 128 and QWKie for the 64 Okay, the QWK spec has a need for index files, does the readers for the 64 or the 128 have a need to use these files? QWKie does, QWKRR creates its own. For QWKie, yes. What are they, offsets for the data? Yes.... they have info about each conference and the messages within them. QWKRR creates just one index file of its own format while QWKie uses the ones which come in the mail packet. (such as the number of messages) Is it common for QWK mail readers on most computers to have need of these files? CRR for CP/M mode does not use them, but many of the PC OLR's do. This is dependant entirely upon the programmer for the OLR. I've heard it's a necessisty on older OLR's. And maybe computers (PC's). Good questions! :-) Okay, we all know how to use the program now. Where can we get the program, what are the costs, and where do I send the money? Tim first...concerning QWKie QWKie 3.1 can be downloaded here on GEnie. The registration fee is $17 and the fee can be sent to: Arthur Moore 828 N. Hudson St. Orlando, FL USA 32808-7555 (By the way, that's $17 US (send in an addition $2 for international orders.) ... Oh, darn. I almost forgot. Moore is writing his last version for QWKie (to be called QWKie 4.0. He has mentioned that you can send in your registration fee but it's not a necessity since the full blown version (4.0) will be available to the public.) Gaelyne, how about QWKRR? QWKRR128 $20 Australian (about $15 or $16 US) The funds need to be in either cash (send it registered mail), personal check, credit card (see the registration form), or an INTERNATIONAL Money Order in ... AUSTRALIAN funds. (NOT U.S.)!!! Address: Rod Gasson 90 Hilliers Rd. Reynella SA 5161 South Australia (You can phone with your Credit card number, if you wish, see the docs) There's a 15.5 hour time difference. They are ahead of us. One more, does the QWK standard require that the mail packets be compressed? About compression? Yes, does the QWK standard require it, or is it optional? Most of the mail doors require it. Do you mean for replies or for the QWK packets you download? Are you writing an OLR? No, I'm writting a door for a Commodore BBS to support it, hopefully. YIPPEE! According to the Fido FTS-001 standard you don't have to compress, Vortex does not support compression I've gotten a lot of conflicting info about the standard. (Greg, he means QWk, not Fido) I don't think their is a Commodore BBS that supports qwk, is there? Not until he Doctor does it. What about the higher verison of Zip & Arc-PK? Take it Tim... about the zip stuff There isn't a C64/128 dissolver for the PKzip 2.04g files at this time. Arc's may be OK. I have a zip file that will not un-pack. And, what about the lh5 is that still on under CP/M? What do you mean? Does the Unzip program say unreconizable format? yes I don't know much about the cp/m versions, Dan. Sorry. Then what may have happen was the mail packet was compressed by the PKzip2.04 compressor. Try to see if your mail door accepts the PKzip1.01 compression. I would like to thank everyone for coming tonight. I would especially thank Gaelyne and Tim for their expertise. And for their great answers Thanks for having us, Tim! Thank you for having us, Tim. :) Greg, you have been a great co host. Great questions, too! And Cam thanks for all that great editing you are going to do on the transcripts to make us all look good. LOL! We will be going into an open forum....thanks everyone for coming.