The following C64/128 RoundTable BB Messages have been archived by H.HERMAN8 (Howie). ---------------------------------------------------------- ************ Topic 9 Sat Mar 26, 1994 R.HAMMERSTED (Forwarded) Sub: 1541 Disk Drives Place for Questions, Answers, or Comments about the 1541 disk drive. 54 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 1 Sat Mar 26, 1994 R.HAMMERSTED (Forwarded) Satd March 26, 1994 To: WHOEVER CAN HELP SUBJECT: Problem with two CBM 1541 drives. The two drives are used as #8 and #9. When only one or the other is connected it will operate properly as #8 or #9. When both are connected nether one will work. Nothing can be loaded from either drive. Only the red light will keep blinking. This is true whether being used as CBM or GEOS. Prior to this they worked OK when both were hooked up. Thanks for your help. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 2 Sat Mar 26, 1994 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] (Forwarded) RH: RH> The two drives are used as #8 and #9. When only one or the RH> other is connected it will operate properly as #8 or #9. When RH> both are connected nether one will work. Nothing can be loaded RH> from either drive. Only the red light will keep blinking Have you added any equipment to your setup, like a printer interface or a speedup cart? Mine locks me up every once in awhile and I can't access any of my drives when this happens. I usually reset the interface. My Mach128 used to do this to me too every once in awhile. I'm sure others have a better idea of what problems you could be having. Mine is only a blind guess. %^O ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 3 Sat Mar 26, 1994 C128.JBEE (Forwarded) Ed's post just jogged my memory, is your printer on? Is one of the drives on the system a "clone" instead of a true C-1541/71 ? ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 4 Sat Mar 26, 1994 R.HAMMERSTED (Forwarded) Tnx for info. Both drives are CBM 1541. They had been working OK before. Hope some one can come with answer. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 5 Sat Mar 26, 1994 M.RANDALL2 [Maurice] (Forwarded) Just a suggestion on the two drive problem. Sometimes a problem like this can be traced to a defective serial cable. You might want to check the cable that goes to the last drive from the computer. Substitute a known good cable for this one and see what happens. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 6 Sat Mar 26, 1994 R.DAY (Forwarded) I have 6 drives hooked up to my 128. Then a printer. I never have any problums. Some of the cables I made my self. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 7 Sun Mar 27, 1994 L.SCHONDER [C128.LOU] (Forwarded) Six drives? Maybe your system is getting tired. I'd lean towards a serial cable problem, too. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 8 Sun Mar 27, 1994 R.DAY (Forwarded) No I'm not haveing a problem. I have a HD, 1581, FD-4000, 1571, and two 1541- II drives then a Hot Shot Plus printer interface. At one time I had three 1541- II's with all this, Still no problems. I all so have a RAMlink. This is all on a 128 too but sometimes in testing out 64's I unplug the cabol from my 128 and plug it in to the 64's I test and it still works good. I think some have problums from using cabols that are not too good. I guess they all need to be shilded mybe. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 9 Sun Mar 27, 1994 L.SCHONDER [C128.LOU] (Forwarded) Commercial cables are cheap enough that I would think you could try that as an alternative. CMD sells them for around $5, I think. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 10 Sun Mar 27, 1994 CMD-DOUG (Forwarded) I've seen systems run with as many as a dozen drives without problems. I've also seen machines that couldn't handle having more than ONE drive online without locking up the serial bus. The ability of the serial bus to handle the load of additional drives varies widely from one individual computer to the next. Signals on the bus are supposed to be square waves (i.e., they should shift in level between 0 and 5 volts quickly). Adding more drives presents an additional load to the bus, partly because each drive has terminating resistors inside of it. The effect of this is a rounding off of the signals on the bus, making them look more like sine waves than square waves. If a signal is 'floating' somewhere between 0 and 5 volts at the point in time that the drives circuitry is checking it, an incorrect logic value or error condition will often occur. This often causes a situation where the serial bus does not get released by the device, and it appears that the computer has 'locked up'. Resetting the serial bus will clear the condition, but it won't cure the overall problem. One thing you can do to avoid running into this problem is to make sure that all serial bus devices which you have attached to your system are turned on. If you don't use some of the devices very often, you're better off taking them off the bus entirely than just turning them off (many devices actually load the bus MORE when TURNED OFF). ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 11 Mon Oct 10, 1994 D.PHELPS1 [Tim Phelps] at 21:07 EDT My disk drive has started to act funny. After turning the unit on, the red light will flash two times and I think the head is spinning. What does this mean? Thanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 12 Tue Oct 11, 1994 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 05:30 EDT I know the early PET drives like the 4040 and the 8050 have a self diagnostic on power up. If the drive finds a problem it will flash the error light a certain number of times to indicate which piece of hardware has gone wrong. I'm not sure if the 1541 drive has the same capability, but I wouldn't doubt it. It sounds like the drive is failing this sort of self-check. Doc. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 13 Wed Oct 12, 1994 F.OGLE [Color BBS] at 22:46 EDT Doc is correct, and I once posted the codes for the 9060/9090s (and I the IEEE drives were the same in this way), IE the number of flashes, and what they meant. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 14 Thu Oct 13, 1994 D.PHELPS1 [Tim Phelps] at 10:28 EDT But what does it mean when the error light flashes two times on the 1541? Thanks. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 15 Sat Oct 15, 1994 D.PHELPS1 [Tim Phelps] at 12:43 EDT OK, I finally found out what the two blinks mean: Possible zero page RAM failure. Now my next question is what does this mean? Also, should I bother sending it out for repair or should I get another one (reconditioned)? Thanks. (E(*l (p.s., I meant the drive in my last question) ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 16 Mon Nov 28, 1994 D.BARR2 at 19:14 EST I was recently given 2 1541 drives, because they don't work. I hooked them up to find that the computer won't come up until I disconnect the cable. I reconnected the cable after the computer came up, but I can't access the drives. I have power, just no talk. Any ideas? David ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 17 Sun Dec 04, 1994 E.BOURDON1 [C128-Eddie] at 18:17 EST You might want to try hooking up just ONE drive, because if they are both device #8 and you try to access them, you will get just what you described above. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 18 Sun Dec 04, 1994 B.MASSE [BIG BOB] at 22:51 EST 4-9 How do you change the device settings on a 1541 drive? You need to cut a Trace on the board. You will need to turn the drive over and remove the 4 screws and the remove the top of the case. Now you must remove two screws that hold the big metal shield that covers the the drive mech. You now have to find to jumpers on the top circuit board that are may or may not be marked J1 and J2 (they may also be marked as A1 and B2. They are circular in shape and about 1/4 inch in diameter. If you look real close at these they appear to be in the shape of two half moons with a thin trace connecting them. If you have a lever style door on your 1541 there is good chance that the the jumpers will be located near the rear/right of center. If you have the garage door style disk door closer you will find the jumpers near the front/left of center. (maybe) You will need a very sharp knife and a steady hand to cut through the proper trace to get the drive number you want. IMPORTANT... be advised that static electricty that is discharged onto some Integrated circuits will smoke them beyond repair. So try not to touch them with your bare hands, unless you are grounded. Device # J1 J2 8 don't cut don't cut 9 cut don't cut 10 don't cut cut 11 cut cut Bob :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 19 Mon Dec 05, 1994 D.BARR2 at 20:09 EST Drive address ia not the problem. They were hooked up one at a time. I guess I wasn't clear in my original post. Both drives have the same problem and are *not* hooked up at the same time. Thanks for the jumper info, Bob. If I can get these drives in operation, then I will be able to put that to use. David ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 20 Mon Dec 05, 1994 D.BARR2 at 20:12 EST Further on that problem, I have a 64 and a 128. Makes no difference which 'puter I connect to, the bad drives inhibit complete power-up. David ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 21 Mon Dec 05, 1994 B.MASSE [BIG BOB] at 21:45 EST 4-9 >Thanks for the jumper info, Bob. If I can get these drives in operation, then >I will be able to put that to use. No problem Dave. By the way when I posted the drive change operation on the 1541 I made some embarrasing blunders.... so I am re-sending my corrected version. 1541 Device Change How do you change the device settings on a 1541 drive? You need to cut a Trace on the board. You will need to turn the drive over and remove the 4 screws and the remove the top of the case. Now you must remove two screws that hold the big metal shield that covers the the drive mech. You now have to find to jumpers on the top circuit board that are may or may not be marked J1 and J2 (they may also be marked as A1 and B2, or even 1 and 2). They are circular in shape and about 1/4 inch in diameter. If you look real close at these they appear to be in the shape of two half moons with a thin trace connecting them. You will find the jumpers near the front of the top circuit board left of center (as you are looking at drive door from the front) You will need a very sharp knife and a steady hand to cut through the proper trace to get the drive number you want. Device # J1 J2 8 don't cut don't cut 9 cut don't cut 10 don't cut cut 11 cut cut This is what a magnified Jumper will look like.... *** *** * * * * * *---* * * *---* * * * * * *** *** cut this ^ Bob :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 22 Wed Dec 07, 1994 ADAM.RT [ADAM/Geoff] at 00:03 EST David: Hmmm, interesting problem. I suppose it's a possibility that something on the disk drive controller is shorting or halting the serial connector? I had a problem with one 1541 drive once. The drive would accept no commands from the computer at all. I had to replace the 6502 processor, and that fixed it. *Geoff!* ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 23 Thu Dec 08, 1994 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 01:12 EST Also one of the 6522 adapters which control serial bus activity can occasionally go bad. Does your drive flash its light when you turn it on? Often 1541's will try to tell you what's wrong with them when they fail their startup self-check. Doc. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 24 Sun Dec 11, 1994 ADAM.RT [ADAM/Geoff] at 13:25 EST As the Doctor mentions, one of the 6522 adapters may be bad. At the risk of sounding repetitive....try swapping 'em out and see what happens. If something else goes wrong, it may be the 6522's. They're cheap. *Geoff!* ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 25 Sun Dec 11, 1994 D.BARR2 at 18:07 EST Thanks to all for your help. I am reluctant to remove a component from a good drive to test. So I will invest in a couple of chips by mail and try it. David ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 26 Tue Jan 24, 1995 R.DAY at 18:52 EST relative file bug fix. In dieHard Oct. 94 Vol 3 no. 7 Issue 23 they gave a patch just about 10 bytes to fix the felative file bug in a 1541 or 1571 drive. I can swop part of the 32k or ram I have in my 1541-II with the ROM. So I put the patch in then typed in the test program from Transactor Jan 87 Volume 7 issue 4. I run it on my 1571 in 41 mode. Got errors back. When it went to the 1541-II that I put the relative file patch in, I got no errors! So the patch in dieHard looks like it works very good :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 27 Thu Jan 26, 1995 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 06:16 EST Any plans to add this patch to JiffyDOS ROM's I wonder? I'd certainly like such a patch. I wish there was a way that a patch could be written to drive memory so that you wouldn't have to reburn a new ROM. Doc. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 28 Tue Jan 31, 1995 J.LABAUVE at 02:19 EST Greetings, I need a little with my 1541 drive. Problem: I turn the drive on and all it does is spin. It used to work find the one day, both the red and green light went off and all you hear is the disk turning in the drive. Does this sound major and if it does, who is a reliable person to sent it off to be repaired. The Commodore repair shop here closed a few years ago. Anybody???? Jason ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 29 Wed Feb 01, 1995 C128.JBEE at 01:09 EST I have been using Earl Harvey for years. His phone number (WY) is 307-745-7077. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 30 Tue Feb 07, 1995 R.DAY at 20:18 EST 1541-II with 32k ram battery backuped!!! I just did this today. With a DS1210 8 pin chip. I only tested it off for about one minute. Then 5 minutes. I will have it off all night and let you know if if still works like that. So now I can have 4 roms in my 1541-II. I have jiffydos, commodore dos, and 2 others if I want. So if any one wants to backup a CMOS RAM this DS1210 from Dallas will do it I got it from Jameco for $3.95. Just wanted to let all know this good news. :) Wow and I just sent this with my buffer! did a *b looks like it works good :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 31 Wed Feb 08, 1995 C128.JBEE at 23:35 EST Raymond, That sounds like a very cool project! Let us know the nitty gritty details in some sort of an article, somewhere! :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 32 Fri Feb 10, 1995 J.THOMPSO122 [JIMBOB51] at 20:48 EST R.Day Wow I'm totally lost. What is the use of these roms or memory or extra sockets ? Jimbob ;] ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 33 Sat Feb 11, 1995 R.DAY at 05:34 EST The battery back up of the 32k CMOS RAM I have in my 1541-II is working very good. This ram is addressed at $4000 to $bfff. I have two switchs with one it will put the ram I have at $4000 to $7fff and put it to $c000. The other switch will take the ram I have at $8000 to 7fff and put it at $c000 I use a chip that will invert some of the address'. So now I can have a DOS in it that will auto see how menny trys my disk are. With this drive I can go up to 46 tracks. That gives me 851 blocks free on a 1541. I all so put the relative file bug fix in this that come out of the mybe last dieHard. I all so have a save with replace bug fix in it all added to the jiffydos rom. Plug a no bump head in the rom, because I have a switch at track 0. So when the head get's to track 0 with will sent a gnd. to a CIA chip to tell the dos it is there. The chip I used to back up this ram is a DS1210 8 pin chip. Pin 1 goes to the ram's 5 volts, pin 2 goes to the battery +, pin 3 goes to pin 1, pin 4 goes to gnd., pin 5 goes to CS to decose the ram to $4000 to $7fff, pin 6 goes to CS and CE of the ram chip, pin 7 goes to a back up battery but I only have one battery so I put it to gnd., and pin 8 is +5 volts. So when power fails from 4.5 to 4.25 volts the DS1210 puts pin 6 to hi to tern off the ram chip so the ram will not be messed up. Now I don't have to wright the ram to the ram of the 1541-II drive when I want to use this other DOS. The back up will work good only when I power down from the power supply and not by terning off from the drive. If I even swop the ram and rom with a switch wile the drive is on the ram will mess up. I could do this before I have the battery back up. I would just load the dos in the ram of the drive and switch the switch and reset the computer. I have the check sum in the drives dos so the LED on the drive will flash if the drives ram is not backed up good. It works very good for me. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 34 Sat Feb 11, 1995 E.GBELL [e.g.bell] at 08:02 EST This is only sort of related to this topic, but directly related to the previous post.... RD> ram is addressed at $4000 to $bfff. I have two switchs with one RD> it will put the ram I have at $4000 to $7fff and put it to RD> $c000. The other switch will take the ram I have at $8000 RD> to 7fff and put it at $c000 I would like to know how to do this. If I knew, I could use different Eproms in my 128 for my assembler. As things are, I use a 256K or bigger chip. When I use smaller chips, as 27128, the code maps in at $c000. Am I reading what you did correctly? (btw, I know the 256K chip is actually only 32K, before anyone tells me that. :) ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 35 Sat Feb 11, 1995 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 21:53 EST I think all this 1541 modification is pretty neat, but what's the practical application? I mean being able to switch in different RAM's and ROM's and the like sounds unusual. To have it battery backedup sounds just plain strange. What do you do copy a whole disk into memory and leave it there, till you need to dump it off to many more disks? Doc. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 36 Sun Feb 12, 1995 R.DAY at 04:52 EST The good thing I can do with this 1541 is have 4 other DOS's. I have jiffyDOS in it all ready so I can have jiffyDOS or commodore 1541 DOS. But with that DOS you can't wright to it. With this RAM DOS I have I can wright to it and don't even have to save it because it is still in there like ROM only it's not just read only. I got 1541 disk that have 851 blocks free, Never kick the head, no save @ replace bug, and no relative file bug. That's what the good thing about haveing this battery back up ram in the 1541. Before if I wanted to use this DOS I have to load it in the computer and send it to the drive. Now I just have to switch 1 switch. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 37 Mon Feb 13, 1995 D.TUOMI [Doctor] at 01:34 EST Are you going to release that version of DOS? I'd like to try it out myself. Doc. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 38 Wed Apr 12, 1995 J.BARBER9 [Dan Barber] at 19:34 EDT I just discovered a bunch of disks that will not valadate! They keep giving me error 66 illgeal track or sector. And this useally occurs on track 53 secotr 26. But can occur anywhere from track 50 to track 60. What is going on? Is it my drive, or is it my disks? I can file copy to other disks without problems, but valadateing shows errors. The disks are MEI/Micor Center disks and I have never had any problems with them before. Should I copy the files to other disks and throw out the old? Or are the disks not going to get any wrose? The disks vary in age from one month to 2 years. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. :) Thanks. Dan ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 39 Thu Apr 13, 1995 CMD-DOUG at 08:34 EDT Sounds a lot like you're trying to validate disks formatted as double- sided (1571) in a single-sided drive (1541) or mode. If you're doing the validate in a 1571 drive in 1571 mode, then you may be experiencing a problem with the drive rather than the disks themselves. ------------ Category 4, Topic 9 Message 40 Sat Apr 29, 1995 R.DAY at 21:22 EDT I had a 1541 disk with 0 blocks free. I used super snapshot u1 and u2 commands and put a nother file on the dir track 18. Valadated the disk and it showed that the new blocks were being used in the dir track even with the BAM after a valadate. So another good thing I my be I can do with the battery back up 32k ram that I can switch to where the ROM is is to try and get the DOS to save on the DIR track if there is still room there for the last file. I will look into this when I have time. If it works that should be neet :) So loading this file after a DIR you don't even here the sound of the head moving. ------------ Command: CATegories, TOPics, REAd, REPly BROwse, SETcat, EXIt, or HELp